by nicolaou 51 Replies latest watchtower medical
You are probably right there, Ian. I'm not against the ban myself,
but you may have a hard time convincing a pub owner who loses
his livelihood as a result of the ban of its' benefits.
A city near by banned all smoking in bars. It didn't do a thing. Even though they screamed bloody murder otherwise. I think they even admitted it brought more people in after awhile.
IN DEFENSE OF SMOKERS:
I happen to be one...it`s not cool, it`s not healthy, it`s absolutely stupid, I know...but I smoke about 10 cigarettes a day. And yes, there is a good chance it will one day kill me. But for Gods sake: The TONE in which non-smokers talk about smokers, even in this thread, comprised of people who were even once in a totalitarian, malevolent cult, it`s like they (and some of you) are considering us to be second class citisens, untermenschen and god knows what else. Do we even have human rights?
In my case, I have always tried to be considerate to non-smokers. I don`t smoke indoor, and I wouldn`t have, even if I didn`t have children. When at the bus stop, if I feel like a smoke, I walk like 10 meters away from the bus stop, so I son`t annoy the others there. And yes, i pisses even me of, when I see smokers lighting up at the bus stop, right next to some old lady, or a child. But for gods sake: Smokers are humans too. I personally feel the absolute ban on smoking in pubs and night clubs is the wrong way to go: There would be no problem in separating the smokers section from the rest of the pub / night club with an airtight wall, and a good ventilation system. The only problem is that then most of the non-smokers would stay with the smokers, cause smokers are often interesting people, ha ha. And then you boring non-smokers would have to sit alone in the non-smokers-section anyway. And that`s what`s really troubling you.
Damn nazis.
Good dog, Hellrider,
In my case, I have always tried to be considerate to non-smokers. I don`t smoke indoor, and I wouldn`t have, even if I didn`t have children. When at the bus stop, if I feel like a smoke, I walk like 10 meters away from the bus stop, so I son`t annoy the others there. And yes, i pisses even me of, when I see smokers lighting up at the bus stop, right next to some old lady, or a child. But for gods sake: Smokers are humans too.
You've got to admit you're in a vast minority! If more smokers were considerate like you there wouldn't be such a problem here.
I personally feel the absolute ban on smoking in pubs and night clubs is the wrong way to go: There would be no problem in separating the smokers section from the rest of the pub / night club with an airtight wall, and a good ventilation system. The only problem is that then most of the non-smokers would stay with the smokers, cause smokers are often interesting people, ha ha. And then you boring non-smokers would have to sit alone in the non-smokers-section anyway. And that`s what`s really troubling you.
Well, I'd say some of the really interesting and wonderfully intelligent people I know did smoke - but they gave up to be with us!
Ian
re the signs. There are even multiple signs on the wife's Kingdom Hall door ! (apparently it is the law)
Absolutely true BluesBrother - failure to have the signs displayed brings a £200 on-the-spot fine. And everywhere has to have them, even places where smoking was never allowed - so even places of worship, absolute overkill!!
http://www.smokefreeengland.co.uk/what-do-i-do/quick-guide.html
From a selfish point of view I'm chuffed but its a sad day for 'humanity' since yet again we have to legislate against our own propensity to damage ourselves. Smoking was a cultural construct that existed when life was short and death from smoking related illnesses was not known or that likely. The awful part was when the tobacco industry found out it was harmful they said nothing to protect profits. Now that all smokers are fully aware of the risks of their actions comes the hard part - now people are smoking from a conscious choice and still they do it. This is when the government has to step in since smokers have shown a strong tendancy to short term pleasure over long term health and cost to others (medical care is paid for collectively but consumed individually.) Smokers cannot claim that their actions do not hurt others (even when they are considerate about second hand smoke) and while many are publically considerate they are often less so inclined towards family - in particular their own children.
If would have been better mind you if we could have grown out of our smoking culture faster so that smoking was considered a quaint old custom like old world trepanning.
Where I worry is that legislating behaviour is a form of slavery...
P.S. I agree - the grandiose bit about 'humanity' was a bit twitish
Personally i'm glad this has happened at last, I had to see my beautiful aunt who was only in her mid forties, die a horrible death of lung cancer and see her go from a beautiful vivacious person to skin and bone who couldn't even keep the coating on her tablets down so theres no way i'd ever touch the nasty stuff! But i really don't think of smokers as 2nd class citizens they have a right to smoke if they want to i just don't think it should be around those who don't want it near them, not everyones as considerate as Hellrider, i have had to stand in a bus stop and be smoked all over or miss that one and now i have an asthmatic son i don't even like us having to walk behind someone up town who is smoking.
What many in this thread seem to have missed is a vital aspect of personal freedom being compromised: that a government is treating private property as public areas that they can have a say in. From the sound of it, no premises are being exempted, not even ones where smoking has never been allowed, eg. churches and Kingdom Halls - those stickers must look bloody silly in those places, and no doubt are offensive to members of those orgs that have always prided themselves on being a smoke-free place. Instead of allowing individual businesses like pubs and restaurants to decide whether or not they'll go smoke-free or provide non-smoking areas, there is a blanket ban. This strikes me not so much as a public safety issue, so much as an attempt to legislate a moral code. Those of us who come from oppressive organisational backgrounds will know what I mean when I say that you cannot create morality by making more rules.
When someone does something good when the right to do something else has been taken off them, have they experienced any real moral growth?
Absolutely true BluesBrother - failure to have the signs displayed brings a £200 on-the-spot fine. And everywhere has to have them, even places where smoking was never allowed - so even places of worship, absolute overkill!!
Now that I would complain about
What many in this thread seem to have missed is a vital aspect of personal freedom being compromised:
Sorry, but there is a president your freedom doesn't come at the cost of someone else health.
Smoke outside.
im a smoker and here in new zealand we have done this , im all for it as i always always smoke outside anyway , better for my kids and i smoke less , bit cold in the pubs sometimes but thats my choice
