England goes SMOKE FREE tomorrow! (page 5)

Illyrian

Why not most of Europe has already done it!! ;)

nicolaou

the smokers are the meek, apologetic ones, while the anti-smokers continually hunt them down, and won't be satisfied until they take their last smokey breath

Riiiight. C'mon Stephanus, do you actually believe your own sweeping generalizations? The trend is definately moving towards a more enlightened outlook here, no-one is 'hunting' smokers down in fact the taxpayer funded National Health Service here in the UK is bending over backwards to assist smokers to end their addiction.

If I remember right Bhutan was the first country to make smoking illegal anywhere within that country a few years ago. A good example for other nations to follow I think although it wouldn't be without some pain.

Nic'

Freedom Fighter

Interesting point from Trev:

" I heard a radio report last week where it said that, since the

ban came into effect in Scotland, more than 800 pubs have

closed, with a subsequent loss of over 3,500 jobs. No doubt

some of those people would have supported the ban, but I

wonder how they feel about it now? Would they rather work

in an environment where smoking is allowed, or be out of

work? I know which I'd prefer. "

It's actually not as simple as that - there are many different factors affecting the pub trade. One of these is the big brewers monopoly which is forcing a lot of independent pubs to close. They can't compete with the prices and facilities provided by a Wotherspoons - just one example.

Also - there is the 'supermarket' factor. There has been a trend towards selling alcohol at really cheap prices - e.g. Asda, so more people drink in the house to save money. As an example - some people may prefer to go to a club having had a few drinks rather than forking out for the over priced and sometimes watered down stuff available at the bar. In some cases the smoking ban has brought in more people, as it would appear there is a grudging acceptance that this is how it's going to be from now on.

Sure the smoking ban will have had some impact, but as Ian said the benefits will far outweigh any disadvantages.

Hellrider

Nicolau:

If I remember right Bhutan was the first country to make smoking illegal anywhere within that country a few years ago. A good example for other nations to follow I think although it wouldn't be without some pain.
Nic

Ok. So those old guys down at the pub, you know, the old sailors, whose only joy in life is to sit around talking, drinking beer, watch football and SMOKE, the happiness of these oldtimers, who have been smokers their entire lives, is irrelevant. They would probably become severely depressed if you took their tobacco away from them, some would (definitely) kill themselves too (that`s how addictive it is), but hey, who cares, as long as it`s for the long term benefit of the nation, right? Who are you to make life-altering decisions for other people? What happened to free will?

By the way: Are you overweight? Do you drink too much? Ooops, so sorry, it`s unhealthy for you. So what the state is gonna do, is force you to go on a diet. And the rest of the population too. All foods containing sugar and saturated fat will be removed from the stores. Only vegetables, rice, beans, potatos, fish and white meat will be left. All alcohol will be removed too. That`s right, no more beer, no more wino. No chocolate, no candy. Ever. For the rest of your life, you will never taste chocolate, candy or chips again. And you will never have a beer or a glass of wine again. Ever. For the rest of your life.

Welcome to your world.

nicolaou

Let's keep this civil and rational.

As you yourself stated hellrider; "Are you overweight? Do you drink too much? Ooops, so sorry, it`s unhealthy for you." And that's the point, we all have the right to treat our bodies like crap if we are weak enough to want to - but we do not have the right to show the same disrespect to the bodies of our neighbours!

If I were stupid enought to gorge on McDonalds every day and wash it down with sugary drinks, never eating any fresh fruit or vegetables what would that do to me? Now, what would it do to you? NOTHING!

Smoking is an antisocial nuisance that pollutes my lungs, makes my clothes smell and impinges on my health. No smoker, not even the 'good 'ol boys' down the pub have the right to do that to me or my family.

Nic'

Hellrider

I agree (I never meant to be uncivil, btw). But in your post, you were hinting at outlawing smoking alltogether, by claiming that Bhutan was a good example to follow. And by that, you went far beyond the argument that I do understand, and support, that smoking can be a nuisance (and harmful) to non-smokers. The validity of this argument stops at outlawing smoking alltogether, because there is no problem in sparing non-smokers from our disgusting habit: Smokers clubs, smokers pubs (that would be cool...of course, it would fill up with non-smokers too, but that`s hardly our problem), smoking in the privacy of ones own home (if one lives alone), smoking outdoor (not near non-smokers, outdoor cafes would have to be a no-no, of course), etc. But that is clearly not enough for you. By claiming that outlawing smoking completely would be a good thing, you have gone from protecting the rights of non-smokers, to persecuting smokers. Sorry, but that`s just the way it is.

LoverOfTruth

I believe people have a right to smoke. But they have the Obligation to Not do it around other people. Others have a Right to Breath Clean Air. I only have to be around a smoking individual for only a couple minutes and I'll be congested and coughing for the next week.

Stephanus

Why not most of Europe has already done it!! ;)

That was Hitler's argument for Britain's capitulation!

5go

One most wonder though is this because weed is becoming legal as a way to let the people have their way without actualy getting their way.

Fe2O3Girl

http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,2153163,00.html

I love the bit about the tobacco companies providing a website for smokers to find the best pubs for smoking! How community minded of them. And how they are relying on "emerging markets" i.e. the third world, to make up the drop in consumption in the West.

Cigarette sales dropped nearly 7% last month after a smoking ban was introduced in England.
Smokers bought 6.9% fewer cigarettes in the four weeks to July 28 than in the same period last year, according to figures from consumer research group AC Nielsen. Sales were down 1.2% in June, ahead of the ban.
Anti-smoking campaigners ASH welcomed the news. "This is a good sign," a spokeswoman said. "As expected, smokers appear to be cutting back on the number of cigarettes they smoke. We also expect many will use the smoking ban as a trigger to help them quit altogether."
The fall in July mirrors the 6-8% declines in cigarette consumption seen after smoking bans in public places were imposed in Ireland in 2004 and in Scotland last spring.
Citigroup analyst Adam Spielman said: "Over time the impact [on the tobacco industry] ameliorated, such that the full-year impact was in the low single digits."
In addition, the wet weather in July is likely to have deterred smokers from using the outdoor smoking facilities at pubs and restaurants.
Tobacco giants British American Tobacco (BAT), Gallaher and Imperial Tobacco have set up a website for smokers to help them find pubs with good outdoor smoking facilities such as awnings and beer gardens.
Gallaher, which was recently bought by Japan Tobacco, saw a 6.6% drop in cigarette sales in July while Imperial suffered a 6.9% drop. Gallaher and Imperial dominate the UK market whereas Marlboro maker Philip Morris, which saw sales drop 10.1%, and BAT, where sales were down 8.3%, have small market shares.
Imperial, maker of the Lambert & Butler, Richmond, and Davidoff brands, holds the view that smoking bans usually lead to an initial dip in smoking, but believes that consumption will rise again gradually over time.
The tobacco group is also counting on buoyant consumption in emerging markets to make up for the shortfall in western countries.
Imperial shares were down 24p at £21.14 this morning.
Borders, the book chain, has seen sales of books helping people to quit smoking soar by 260%.
Nielsen said its figures only cover sales through retail and do not include sales through pubs or vending machines. But it had expected "sales to initially fall as has been the trend in other countries which have introduced such a ban so these figures do not come as a surprise.
"Wet weather, an increase in advertising and promotion for smoking cessation products and the fact that in July 2006 we had the World Cup would also combine to affect market trends in the month of July and would contribute to any market declines."
Early evidence shows that 97% of businesses have enforced the smoking ban in England. A survey of local authorities commissioned by the Department of Health found that in London, 99% of businesses were compliant within the first two weeks of the ban coming into effect on July 1.
The south-west had the lowest rate of compliance, but even there 94% of businesses were upholding the law. During the first two weeks, just 45 written warnings were issued to smokers and only one fixed penalty notice was issued.

England goes SMOKE FREE tomorrow!

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