Comments You Will Not Hear at the 7-1-07 WT Study (SUFFERING END SOON)

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  • blondie
    blondie

    Comments You Will Not Hear at the 7-1-07 WT Study (May 15, 2007, pages 21-25)(SUFFERING SOON TO END) Review comments will be in redWT material from today's WT will be in black
    Quotes from other sources will be in quotes boxes
    w = Watchtower
    g = Awake
    jv = Proclaimers book

    Bible translations www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible
    WT publications www.reexamine.org
    WT child abuse www.silentlambs.org
    Blood issue www.ajwrb.org
    United Nations http://www.randytv.com/secret/unitednations.htm

    WHY ALL SUFFERING IS SOON TO END

    "The Rock, perfect is his activity. "-DEUTERONOMY 32:4.

    OPENING COMMENTS

    Yes, all suffering caused by humans that the WTS views as rejected by God will end because they teach that all non-jws will soon die at Armageddon. But what about the suffering caused by the WTS and their representatives that the WTS will survive?

    START OF ARTICLE

    Q1, 2) (a) Why do you cherish the hope of living forever? (b) What prevents many from believing in the God who makes wonderful promises for the future?

    1) Do you love to imagine life in Paradise? Maybe you see yourself exploring this marvelous planet and learning about its almost endless variety of living things. Or perhaps you ponder the satisfaction you will feel as you work with others to tend to the earth and help transform it into a global park. Or you may contemplate the talents you could develop in art, architecture, music, or other pursuits for which you can find no time in today's hectic life. In any case, you cherish the hope of living what the Bible calls "the real life"--life as Jehovah meant us to live it, with eternity in view.-1 Timothy 6:19.

    Do you love to imagine life in Paradise?

    Yes, jws revel in it calling it speculating as some pick out the house in the neighborhood they "imagine" will be theirs after Armageddon since those people are certainly deserving of death for not being jws at the right moment.

    Exploring this planet

    Which many jws have only done driving to and from the conventions/assemblies.

    Transform it into a global paradise

    By a group of people and an organization that does not have respect now for their surroundings as God will make it right miraculously without any effort on their part.

    Global park

    Did you ever notice that the grass is mowed even in the open in WT pictures as if grass never gets more than 3 inches high. Have you ever seen what WTS mows their grounds with...no push mowers for them.

    The trees and bushes will be pruned within an inch of their lives, no dead wood in Paradise!

    Contemplate the talents you could develop in art, architecture, music, or other pursuits for which you can find no time in today's hectic life.

    What do you think the other pursuits that good jws should have no time for?

    I know jws that believe that in the "paradise" they will pick up a trumpet and never having played before or had lessons, will be a virtuoso.

    *** g93 4/22 p. 16 Would You Like to Entertain Your Friends? ***

    If friends occasionally ask you to play for them, do not be quick to turn them down, perhaps feeling that you are inadequate. If they wanted perfection, would they not have chosen recorded music instead?

    So recorded music is perfection?

    What speculations did you have in the past?***see more below after review

    Another person's version of life in "paradise."

    http://www.macgregorministries.org/jehovahs_witnesses/armagsurv.html

    *** w73 2/1 p. 79 par. 16 Living with Life in God’s New Order in View ***

    There will be time, too, to perfect skills in what today are termed the fine arts, and to enjoy these fully: The finest music, with no taints of immorality, Babylonish religion or mythology; paintings or sculptures that have meaning and reflect skill, rather than products of twisted minds.

    *** g76 2/8 p. 28 Will Everlasting Life Be Boring? ***

    Mankind will have ample time to exercise both mind and body. With commercialized, competitive sports a thing of the past, no doubt there will be more healthful ways of expending energy, such as in community games, in hiking, in swimming. Lovers of music will learn to play expertly the grandest of music, that will then be composed, on all the variety of instruments that perfect men will no doubt invent.

    CARROT--the real life--eternity in view (implies that eternal life is only on earth)

    2) It is a pleasure and a precious privilege to share that Bible-based hope with others, is it not? Many, however, turn away from such a hope. They dismiss it as an illusion, an unrealistic dream for gullible people. They may even find it hard to believe in the God who promises everlasting life in Paradise. Why? For some, the obstacle involves what is often called the problem of evil. They feel that if God exists and is almighty and loving, the evil and suffering in the world cannot be explained. No God who tolerates evil could exist, they reason--or if he exists, either he is not almighty or he does not care about us. To some, this kind of reasoning sounds convincing. Satan has surely proved adept at blinding human minds.-2 Corinthians 4:4.

    Bible-based hope

    The WTS says that something in order to be established as true needs 2 or 3 witnesses testifying. Could you name 2 scriptures for each major beliefs of the WTS (their interpretation) before and/or now?

    CARROT--God who promises everlasting life in Paradise.

    No God who tolerates evil could exist, they reason.

    Babies heads crashing on the walls; mothers eating their children; word pictures emphasized by the WTS. Where are those scriptures?

    [Picture on page 21] Seek to help those who are troubled by the suffering in the world(In fact jws are trained to target such people with their conversion tactics.)

    Q3) What difficult question can we help people to answer, and why are we in a unique position to do so?

    3) As Jehovah's Witnesses, we are in a unique position to help people who are being deceived by Satan and the wisdom of this world. (1 Corinthians 1:20; 3:19) We see why many do not believe in the Bible's promises. They simply do not know Jehovah. They may not know his name or its significance, and they likely know little or nothing of his qualities or of his record in keeping his promises. We are blessed to have such knowledge. From time to time, it is good for us to review how we can help people who are "in darkness mentally" to find the answer to one of the hardest questions humans ask, "Why does God allow evil and suffering?" (Ephesians 4:18) First we will consider how to approach the answer effectively. Then we will discuss how Jehovah's qualities are evident in the way he has handled the matter of evil.

    Jehovah's witnesses...are in a unique position

    Only jws teach the truth according to the Bible per the WTS; all others are arrogant liars.

    Do not know Jehovah

    And jws do not know Jesus.

    From time to time, it is good for us to review...who is in darkness, nonjws or jws about the WTS lies and misinformation? Can you think of some?

    Finding the Right Approach

    Q4, 5) What may we need to do first when someone raises the question of why God permits suffering? Explain.

    4) When someone asks why God allows suffering, how do we respond? We may be inclined to launch right into a detailed explanation, starting with what happened in the garden of Eden. In some cases, that may be fine. A word of caution is in order, though. Some groundwork may be needed. (Proverbs 25:11; Colossians 4:6) Let us consider three Scriptural points that we may want to establish briefly before delving into the answer to the question.

    When someone asks...launch right into a detailed explanation...the Genesis to Revelation sermon.

    Some groundwork may be needed.

    Why? Most jws believe they will still get "everlasting life in paradise on earth" even if they never "bring anyone in."

    Three Scriptural points---2 or 3 witnesses (see above)

    establish BRIEFLY

    5) First, if the person is particularly disturbed about the prevalence of evil in the world, it is likely that evil has touched him or his loved ones personally. It may be wise, then, to start by showing genuine empathy. The apostle Paul counseled Christians: "Weep with people who weep." (Romans 12: 15) Showing empathy, or "fellow feeling," may touch the person. (1 Peter 3:8) If he understands that we care about him, he is more likely to listen to what we have to say.

    likely that evil has touched him or his loved ones personally

    What is "evil" in the WTS syntax?

    Showing genuine empathy

    How can they when it is painted that the "evil" came upon them by their own actions; that people outside the WTS organization are evil unless they become jws and are soon destroyed eternally along with their children according to the Armageddon doctrine.

    How can they when they cannot show "fellow feeling" to those who are already members as the personal accounts and experiences on this board illustrate over and over?

    If he understands that we care about him...more likely to listen

    Why don't the elders then apply this to the "sheep" in their own flock?

    Q6, 7) Why might we rightly commend a sincere person who raises a troubling spiritual question?

    6) Second, we may commend the sincere person for raising this question. Some people conclude that because they struggle with such questions, they are faithless or disrespectful toward God. They may even have been told as much by a clergyman. However, that is not necessarily the case. After all, faithful people in Bible times asked similar questions. For example, the psalmist David asked: "Why, O Jehovah, do you keep standing afar off? Why do you keep yourself hid in times of distress?" (Psalm 10:1) Similarly, the prophet Habakkuk asked: "How long, OJehovah, must I cry for help, and you do not hear? How long shall I call to you for aid from violence, and you do not save? Why is it that you make me see what is hurtful, and you keep looking upon mere trouble? And why are despoiling and violence in front of me, and why does quarreling occur, and why is strife carried?"-Habakkuk 1:2, 3.

    commend for asking this question

    If they question God or the WTS after their baptism as a jw, watch out, chances are they will be tossed out as an apostate despite that Abraham questioned God as did Moses. Are you familiar with those accounts? Both regarding the destruction of a large group of people.

    (1 John 4:1) 4 Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions
    to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.
    "How long, OJehovah, must I cry for help, and you do not hear? How long shall I call to you for aid from violence, and you do not save? Why is it that you make me see what is hurtful, and you keep looking upon mere trouble? And why are despoiling and violence in front of me, and why does quarreling occur, and Why is strife carried?"-Habakkuk 1:2, 3.

    Was Habakkuk talking about Gentiles or Jews? The Israelites, the "congregation of God" thus if applied correctly according to WTS doctrine, to the WTS not clergymen outside.

    7) These were faithful men who had a great deal of respect for God. Were they rebuked for raising such troubling questions? On the contrary, Jehovah saw fit to have their sincere questions recorded in his Word. Today, a person who struggles with the prevalence of evil may actually be hungering Spiritually--longing for answers that only the Bible can provide. Remember, Jesus spoke well of those who are spiritually hungry, or who are "conscious of their spiritual need." (Matthew 5:3) What a privilege it is to help such ones find the happiness that Jesus promised!

    Were they rebuked for raising such questions?

    Sincere questions--who decides if the question is sincere? The elders, of course. Can they discern motives or read hearts?

    *** w96 6/15 pp. 21-22 par. 15 Blessings or Maledictions—Examples for Us Today ***

    It is proper to ask sincere questions about a Scriptural subject. But what if we were to develop a negative attitude that manifested itself in critical discussions among an intimate circle of friends? We would do well to ask ourselves, ‘Where is this likely to end? Would it not be far better to stop murmuring and pray humbly for wisdom?’ (James 1:5-8; Jude 17-21) Korah and his supporters, who rebelled against the authority of Moses and Aaron, may have been so convinced that their perspective was valid that they did not examine their motives. Nonetheless, they were completely wrong. So were the Israelites who murmured about the destruction of Korah and the other rebels. How wise it is to let such examples move us to examine our motives, dispel murmuring or complaining, and allow Jehovah to refine us.—Psalm 17:1-3.

    *** w06 6/15 pp. 23-24 par. 16 “How I Do Love Your Law!” ***

    No human could enforce such a commandment, since no one can read hearts. That commandment, however, elevated the Law to a plane higher than that of human justice. It made each Israelite aware that he was directly accountable to Jehovah, who can read the inclinations of the heart.
    *** w05 2/1 pp. 28-29 Is the Truth Bearing Fruit in Those You Teach? ***Jesus, of course, was able to read hearts unerringly. (Matthew 12:25) None of us can do that.
    *** w81 7/1 p. 21 par. 15 The God of Love Hates a Divorcing ***/Elders can base their decision only on the apparent repentance, but they are unable to read the heart fully.
    Not being able to judge the motive, they may reinstate the now married couple. But let that couple never forget Paul’s words that “God will judge fornicators and adulterers.” (Heb. 13:4) The final judgment in all such cases rests in the hands of Jehovah God, who knows all the circumstances. He does read hearts, even as Jeremiah 17:9, 10 states. He knows the motive and is aware of any deceit or malicious scheming on the part of persons who violate his law on marriage. Yes, “all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of him with whom we have an accounting.” Surely such scriptures should make us pause and think.—Heb. 4:13.

    Q8) What confusing teachings have led people to believe that God is responsible for suffering, and how can we help them?

    8) Third, we may need to help the person to see that God is not responsible for the wickedness so prevalent in the world. Many people are taught that God is ruling this world that we live in, that God long ago determined everything that happens to us, and that he has mysterious, inscrutable reasons for inflicting misery on mankind. These teachings are false. They dishonor God and make him out to be responsible for the wickedness and suffering in the world. So we may have to use God's Word to set such matters straight. (2 Timothy 3:16) Jehovah is not the ruler of this corrupt system of things; Satan the Devil is. (1 John 5:19) Jehovah does not predestine his intelligent creatures; he gives each one freedom and opportunities to choose between good and bad, right and wrong. (Deuteronomy 30:19) And Jehovah is never the source of wickedness; he hates wickedness and cares for those who suffer unjustly. Job 34:10; Proverbs 6:16-19; 1 Peter 5:7.

    see that God is not responsible

    Then who is responsible for allowing child molesters to remain in the congregation and not be held accountable for breaking Caesar's law and damaging the lives of the innocent children? Would the murder of a child be concealed in the same way? Are jws encouraged to hide murderers?

    http://www.silentlambs.org/education/92_murder_letter.cfm

    http://www.reexamine.org/wtobserver/apps/pbcs.dll/article883d.html?AID=/20040316/NEWS3/40316008

    [Picture on page 23] Faithful David and Habakkuk asked God sincere questions

    Q9) What are some tools that "the faithful and discreet slave" has provided in order to help people understand why Jehovah God permits suffering?

    9) Once you have laid such groundwork, you may find that your listener is ready to learn why God allows suffering to continue. To help you, "the faithful and discreet slave" has provided a number of tools. (Matthew 24:45-47) For instance, at the "Godly Obedience" District Convention of 2005/06, a tract entitled All Suffering Soon to End! was released. If this tract is available in your language, why not familiarize yourself with its contents? Similarly, the book What Does the Bible Really Teach?, now available in 157 languages, devotes a chapter to this important question. Make full use of such tools. They clearly explain the Scriptural background of the issue of universal sovereignty that was raised in Eden and why Jehovah handled that challenge as he did. Keep in mind, too, that as you discuss this subject, you are opening up to your listener the most important field of knowledge there is. It is the knowledge of Jehovah and his wonderful qualities.

    Once you have laid such groundwork--laid the trap, it is time to spring it.

    Read the Bible or read the tract "All Suffering Soon to End" or "What Does the Bible Really Teach"?

    Opening up your mind to the most important field of knowledge (education slam) there is.

    Reading WTS literature not just the Bible.

    Focus on Jehovah's Qualities (Where's Jesus?"

    Q10) What do many find it hard to understand about God's permission of suffering, and what knowledge may help them?

    10) As you help people to understand why Jehovah has allowed humans to rule themselves under Satan's influence, try to draw attention to Jehovah's wonderful qualities. Many people know that God is powerful; they are used to hearing him called God Almighty. However, they may find it hard to grasp why he does not use his great power to end injustice and suffering right away. They probably lack an understanding of Jehovah's other qualities, such as his holiness, justice, wisdom, and love. Jehovah displays these traits in a perfect, balanced way. The Bible thus says: "Perfect is his activity." (Deuteronomy 32:4) How can you bring these qualities to the fore as you answer questions that are often raised on this issue? Let us consider a few examples.

    draw attention to Jehovah's wonderful qualities...lack an understanding of Jehovah's other qualities

    Where's Jesus

    lack an understanding of how God would kill minor children permanently, no resurrection, at Armageddon, the flood and Sodom Gomorrah, because of their parents' choice.

    Didl the Jews who died in 607 (587) BCE and 70 CE descend into Gehenna, never to return? What is a judgment period?

    Both Russell and Rutherford believed that Adam and Eve would be resurrected.

    www.jwfacts.com/index_files/resurrection.htm

    Adam/Resurrected

    Reconciliation (1928) pp.323, 324 - Rutherford

    "Just when Adam will be awakened, only the Lord knows. It may be early or it may be late during the period of restoration."

    Q11, 12) (a) Why was forgiveness not an option when Adam and Eve sinned? (b) Why will Jehovah not tolerate sin forever?

    11) Could Jehovah simply have forgiven Adam and Eve? Forgiveness was never an option in this case. As perfect humans, Adam and Eve made a deliberate choice to reject Jehovah's sovereignty and to accept the guidance of Satan instead. Not surprisingly, there was no sign of repentance on the part of the rebels. However, when people ask about forgiveness in the matter, they may actually be wondering why Jehovah did not simply lower his standard and tolerate the existence of sin and rebellion. The answer involves a quality that is essential to Jehovah's very nature--his holiness.-Exodus 28:36; 39:30.

    Could [God] simply have forgiven Adam and Eve?

    perfect humans...deliberate choice

    no sign of repentance (proof?)

    If it was so clear why did Russell and then Rutherford believe that Adam would be resurrected? Didn't they have the holy spirit? Wasn't Russell viewed as the FDS by the members of the WTS?

    12) The Bible emphasizes Jehovah's holiness hundreds of times. Sadly, though, few people in this corrupt world understand that quality. Jehovah is clean, pure, and separate from all sinfulness. (Isaiah 6:3; 59:2) when it comes to sin, he has arranged for a means of atoning for it, wiping it away, but he will not tolerate it forever. If Jehovah were willing to tolerate sin eternally, we would have no hope for the future. (Proverbs 14:12) In his due time, Jehovah will bring all creation back into a state of holiness. That is certain, for it is the will of the Holy One.

    few people in the corrupt world

    6.5 billion of them all slated for eternal destruction at Armageddon

    In his due time--Soon, Very Soon, Very Soon Now, Fast-Approaching, On The Threshold since 1879.

    Q13, 14) Why did Jehovah choose not to destroy the rebels in Eden?

    13) Could Jehovah merely have destroyed the rebels in Eden and started over? He certainly had the power to do so; soon he will use that power to destroy all the wicked. `Why,' some may wonder, 'did he not do so when there were only three sinners in the universe? Would not the spread of sin--and all the misery we see in the world--have been prevented?' Why did Jehovah not choose that course of action? Deuteronomy 32:4 says: "All his ways are justice." Jehovah feels very strongly about justice. In fact, "Jehovah is a lover of justice." (Psalm 37:28) Because of his love of justice, Jehovah refrained from wiping out the rebels in Eden. Why?

    Started over..soon...destroy all the wicked, 6.5 billion, all men, women and babies, eternally.

    Is that justice? Is law above love?

    14) Satan's rebellion raised a question regarding the rightness of God's sovereignty. Jehovah's sense of justice required that Satan's challenge be given a just answer. The immediate execution of the rebels, while well-deserved, would not have provided such an answer. It would have provided further evidence of Jehovah's supremacy in power, but his power was not in question. Furthermore, Jehovah had stated his purpose to Adam and Eve. They were to have offspring and were to fill the earth, subdue it, and have all earthly creation in subjection. (Genesis 1:28) If Jehovah had simply destroyed Adam and Eve, his stated purpose regarding humans would have become empty words. Jehovah's justice would never allow for such an outcome, for his purpose is always accomplished.-Isaiah 55:10,11.

    A legal question was supposedly raised by Satan

    Had God stated his purpose directly to Eve or only Adam's interpretation of it?

    Where is the love?

    Q15, 16) When people propose alternative "solutions" to the challenge raised in Eden, how may we be able to help them?

    15) Could anyone in the universe address the rebellion with greater wisdom than Jehovah? Some people might propose their own "solutions" to the rebellion in Eden. In doing so, however, would they not be suggesting that they could think of better ways to handle the issue? They might not do so out of a wicked motive, but they do not have an understanding of Jehovah and his awe-inspiring wisdom. In writing to Christians in Rome, the apostle Paul delved deeply into God's wisdom, including the "sacred secret" regarding Jehovah's purpose to use the Messianic Kingdom to bring about the redemption of faithful mankind and to sanctify His holy name. How did Paul feel about the wisdom of the God who devised this purpose? The apostle concluded his letter with these words: "To God, wise alone, be the glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen."-Romans 11:25; 16:25-27.

    They do not have an understand of Jehovah--Where's Jesus?

    Sacred secret--buried in the words Messianic Kingdom teaching of the WTS.

    Paul did say "be the glory through Jesus Christ."

    Where is the glory to God through the WTS or Jesus even?

    16) Paul understood that Jehovah is "wise alone"--the very pinnacle of wisdom in the universe. What imperfect human could possibly think of a better way to handle anything--let alone the most difficult challenge to divine wisdom ever made? We need, then, to help people share the awe that we feel for the God who is "wise in heart." (Job 9:4) The better we comprehend Jehovah's wisdom, the more fully we will trust that his way of handling matters is the best.-Proverbs 3:5, 6.

    Do not question God or the WTS? Does the WTS = God?

    If you challenge the WTS are you challenging God?

    Trust his way or the WTS' way?

    Appreciating Jehovah's Dominant Quality

    Q17) How can a greater understanding of Jehovah's love help those who are troubled by God's permission of suffering?

    17) "God is love." (1 John 4:8) With those striking words, the Bible identifies Jehovah's dominant quality, the quality that is the most appealing of them all and the most comforting for those troubled by the prevalence of wickedness. Jehovah has shown love in every aspect of the way he has handled sin's terrible blight upon his creation. Love moved Jehovah to give hope to the sinful offspring of Adam and Eve, providing them with a means to approach Him and come into an approved relationship with Him. Love moved God to provide a ransom that would open the way for full forgiveness of sins and restoration to perfect, everlasting life. (John 3:16) And love has moved him to be patient with mankind, giving as many as possible the opportunity to reject Satan and choose Jehovah as their Sovereign.-2 Peter 3:9.

    Where was the love when David's son died for the sins of David and Bathsheba?

    John 3:16--the WTS discusses this scripture managing not to even mention Jesus?

    Ransom is viewed as a tool not a person who gave up his life for us.

    CARROT: restoration to perfect, everlasting life (on earth for all but 144,000 and the 6.5 billion non-jws that are slated to die at Armageddon.

    reject Satanor the WTS

    choosing Godmeans choosing the WTS only

    Is Jesus the mediator of the other sheep or the WTS?

    Q18) We are blessed to have what insight, and what will we consider in the following article?

    18) When one pastor addressed an audience gathered to mark the anniversary of a devastating terrorist attack, he said: "We don't know the reason that God allows evil and suffering to continue." How sad! Are we not blessed to have insight into this subject? (Deuteronomy 29:29) And since Jehovah is wise, just, and loving, we know that he will soon end all suffering. In fact, he has promised to do so. (Revelation 21:3, 4) What, though, of all those who have died throughout the centuries? Has Jehovah's way of handling the challenge in Eden left them without hope? No. Love has moved him to provide for them as well, by means of the resurrection. That will be the subject of the following article.

    one pastor addressed an audience--Who, what, where?

    Tim Keller, pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York City, preached just about an hour ago at St. Paul's Chapel, right next to Ground Zero in lower Manhattan, at an invitation-only interfaith service attended by President and Mrs. Bush, Senators Schumer and Clinton, Governor Pataki, Mayor Bloomberg, and former Mayor Giuliani - plus thousands of survivors and family of those who died in connection with the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. Keller's homily was brief but full of genuine empathy and gospel power.
    In the initial aftermath of the attacks, he said, the city was laden with fear and uncertainty. Today, much of that has dissipated, though sorrow and, for many, anger persist. He decided to burrow anew into the difficult question ''Why?''
    The question is impossible to answer completely, he said in his brief sermon. But Dr. Keller pointed to a theme that runs throughout Scriptures, that God identifies with those who suffer. Keller had three potent points. The first related to the problem of evil, that we don't really understand how a good God could allow evil and suffering such as that caused by the terrorists five years ago. He pointed out that evil and suffering affects us all and is a problem for all people of every religion and belief system. Abandoning your belief in God when you come face to face with evil doesn't make the problem go away.
    It's a problem for people who believe in God, and it's just as much a problem for people who don't believe in God.
    His second point concerned a hint from the past. ''We don't know the reason that God allows evil and suffering to continue,'' he said. ''But we know what the reason isn't. We know what the reason can't be. It can't be that he doesn't love us. It can't be that he doesn't care.'' Whatever the reason may be that God allows suffering, we can be sure that it's not because he's unloving or unconcerned. In fact, God can empathize because he experienced the loss of his own son, Jesus Christ, on the cross.
    He concluded with a hint from the future: the hope of resurrection. He encouraged his listeners that even if they aren't sure that they believe in a resurrection they can cultivate a longing for it because there is hope for those who hope. He urged those in the audience to yearn, even if it was difficult to fathom or believe, for a future time, when everything would be made right.
    He cited a passage from the last book of ''The Lord of the Rings,'' when a character, Sam, awakes thinking all is lost but then sees his friend Gandalf. In his joy, he asks him, ''Is everything sad going to come untrue?''

    http://www.xanga.com/sacados

    left them without hope?

    Yes, Adam and Eve, Cain, all the people who died in the flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, 607 (587) BC, 70 CE destruction of Jerusalem, Armageddon, and those deemed having sinned against the holy spirit, non-jw men, women, and children.

    How Would You Answer?

    • What can we say to a person who asks why God allows suffering?
    • How are Jehovah's holiness and his justice manifest in the way he handled the rebels in Eden?
    • Why should we help people to come to a greater understanding of Jehovah's love?

    CONCLUDING COMMENTS

    Soon, very soon, very soon now...

    6.5 billion men, women and children will descend into eternal destruction at Armageddon, never to be seen again...per the WTS. Neither love nor justice.

    It's been sunny lately. A mixed blessing, meaning we have to water the flowers and lawn. Do they have farmer's markets in your area? Do you go? What do you like to buy or do?

    It's someone's birthday tomorrow (not mine).

    Hope you are having good weather and that current news is not alarming you.

    Love, Blondie

  • monophonic
    monophonic

    blondie said:

    "Do you love to imagine life in Paradise?

    Yes, jws revel in it calling it speculating as some pick out the house in the neighborhood they "imagine" will be theirs after Armageddon since those people are certainly deserving of death for not being jws at the right moment."

    oh god, i remember buying to that crap thinking, my parents would always point out the houses they wanted to occupy after armageddon.

    i doubt jesus would even think of saying such vial things.

    thanks for the great points.

  • emptywords
    emptywords

    Excellent work, thanks, just reinforces what I have always known to be true, but wouldn't allow myself to think to deeply.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Thank you so much for printing Pastor Keller's remarks. He acknowledged that there are some things we simply don't know. The WTS would do well to follow his example.

    I've always felt uneasy with their explanation of why evil is allowed. Their answer is so technical, so legalistic, so devoid of love no matter how they try to sugarcoat it. The WTS doctrine of the issue of universal sovereignty is seriously flawed and raises more questions than it gives answers.

    Why would the Most High have to prove anything to a corrupt rebel? Why drag innocent bystanders into it? Why does this rebel have such power as to demand something from God? These are questions that can be answered by no one - no matter how forceful and dogmatic that person may be.

    It is hot here in Alabama. Very, very hot and humid. I had a wee garden but nothing came of it, so I buy tomatoes from a truck farmer. Tomatoes help with my depression issues. Thank you again for a good dose of common sense.

    Snowbird

  • Gill
    Gill

    'The New System' of the JWs and the WTBTS is no different to the Utopia, Valhalla, Atlantis and other 'perfect' societies that humans have fantasised about. The fact remains, they are all fantasy!

    There is no positive without negative in the Universe and if everyone and everything were 'perfect' there would be no challenge, no surprises and no POINT in our existence. Survival and fighting for survival against the odds is what has made the human race what it is, which is predominantly good with a dash of bad thrown in.

    Suffering will never end. But that means that the fight AGAINST suffering, which is even more important, will never end too!

    The WT society and its members may well be rolling in this sea of fantasy at their WT studies this weekend BUT they do so at the cost of reality and also at the cost of their own part in the world to actively stand against bad and do good.

    There is no charity work in the WT society, except a minimum for its own members. There is no campaigning and fighting in courts except for the right to allow their members to die from lack of blood and their right to continue peddling useless mind control literature such as this particular Watchtower article.

    The WT society is nothing but a huge parasite on the backs of its members, bleeding them dry of time and money by holding out a fantasy that will never exist. The JWs are reaching out for this fantasy because they believe that in the future, not only will they live in a utopian society, but that there will no longer be a need to have this blood sucking leech of the WT society on their backs.

    What a shock to read in past articles that meetings will go on forever!

    Thanks Blondie!!!

    Myself, I choose to take reality any day!

  • Inquisitor
    Inquisitor
    Q13, 14) Why did Jehovah choose not to destroy the rebels in Eden? Satan's rebellion raised a question regarding the rightness of God's sovereignty.

    It took Job less than a lifetime to prove that God's servants can be loyal to Him.

    It took Job less than a human lifetime for God to tell Satan that the Almighty had won the bet, time for the Devil to buzz off and time to bless Job for his integrity.

    How long has it taken to resolve the issue of sovereignty? The Big Bet of the Ages is still running (at least 6,000 years now by some Christian estimates; countless of human lives have come and gone). Rather odd isn't it? Millions over the centuries have sacrificed lives, loved ones, and material possessions in hopes of ushering God's Victory Party. Millions have taken the Job stand and proven they want Theocracy. But where is He?

    How come the snappy divine intervention on Job's behalf (which NO SECULAR HISTORICAL RECORD or LIVING HUMAN has ever witnessed) has not similarly occured in our day for the issue of God's Sovereignty?

    Perhaps, even the Almighty doubts His own candidacy?

    Should we call out LOUDER to Him? Perhaps He is stuck in the Celestial Loo without heavenly toilet paper? Or is He sitting on the Throne reading the paper, unaware He's won the Bet? Gee, why is this taunt so familiar?

    "Call atthe top of YOUR voice, for he is a god; for he must be concerned with a matter, and he has excrement and has to go to the privy. Or maybe he is asleep and ought to wake up!" - 1 Kings 18:27

    And it is with this Royal No-Show in context that fundamentalist Christians say skeptics do "not grasp" God's nature or "lack faith in God's promise".

    INQ

  • zack
    zack

    Whether history or allegory, did Satan REALLY challenge the Soveriegnty of God? Certainly any spirit being in the company of the Almighty would have no doubt of who the boss was.

    Did Satan challenge the rightfulness of that soveriegnty? He told Eve that she wouldn't die that day and that God knew that. Well, she didn't die that day or year or century. He told Eve her eyes would be opened and they would become like God. Well, her eyes were opened and God Himself says (to paraphrase) that they have become like one of us, knowing both good and bad. Where is the challenge to God's Sovereignty or rightfulness? I could never understand it, but as an elder I sure did explain it many times.

    There are far more questions with thousands of possible answers that the WTS distills into a thrid grade math problem. They do no one, especially God, any justice. They fell a compunction to defend God, as if He weren't able to defend Himself. And instead of looking to JesusChrist to even begin to understand God (as theChristians they CLAIM to be) they keep looking to dead Hebrews for answers.

    Thanks Blondie for all your work.

  • jgnat
    jgnat
    Exploring this planet Which many jws have only done driving to and from the conventions/assemblies.

    I heard a story last week, that drove home for me the importance to live now. A lady who sacrificed and saved her whole life to go on a world tour. She despised her job and hated her life. Months before her retirement, she died. The friend who told me the story said that after she witnessed that, she lives now. If she limps back from a holiday with two pennies in her pocket, she'll do it with no regrets. At least she knows she grabbed the opportunity when she was still alive to enjoy it.

  • moomanchu
    moomanchu

    enjoyed the study,

    favorite sentences:

    It may be wise, then, to start by showing genuine empathy.

    Jehovah's sense of justice required that Satan's challenge be given a just answer.

  • Hoping4Change
    Hoping4Change
    When one pastor addressed an audience gathered to mark the anniversary of a devastating terrorist attack, he said: "We don't know the reason that God allows evil and suffering to continue." How sad! Are we not blessed to have insight into this subject? (Deuteronomy 29:29)

    and now Deut.29:24-29 from the NWT

    24 yes, all the nations will be bound to say, ‘Why did Jehovah do like this to this land? Why the heat of this great anger?’
    25 Then they will have to say, ‘It was because they abandoned the covenant of Jehovah the God of their forefathers, which he concluded with them when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.
    26 And they proceeded to go and serve other gods and to bow down to them, gods that they had not known and he had not apportioned to them.
    27 Then Jehovah’s anger blazed against that land by bringing upon it the whole malediction written in this book.
    28 Hence Jehovah uprooted them from off their soil in anger and rage and great indignation and threw them into another land as at this day.’
    29 “The things concealed belong to Jehovah our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons to time indefinite, that we may carry out all the words of this law

    Perhaps I am dense, but just exactly how does Deut.29:29 show that JW's are "blessed" on this subject? Is it me or doesnt using this example from Deuteronomy in relation to the 9/11 attacks to explain their "insight" into why God allows suffering suggest that (according to JWs) the terrroist attack occurred on the World Trade Center becuase everyone who was in there (and all their families) deserved to suffer becuase they werent or hadnt become JWs (i.e "they had abandoned the covenant with Jehovah")?

    Am I off on this reasoning that they appear to be using? I sure hope so, becuase otherwise, it is a sly way of expressing some very repugnant beliefs.

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