by erik 46 Replies latest jw friends
Dearest Erik... may you have peace.
May I suggest you try this? Please read, if you will:
John 14:6
John 8:32, 36
John 6:48-56
John 7:37, 38
Matthew 11:28, 29
Matthew 17:5
Revelation 22:17
Start there in your 'search' and may I also say to you that there is NO 'where' to go away to. There is only a 'whom'.
John 6:68
Again, I bid you peace,
A slave of Christ by means of a TRUE anointing with holy spirit,
SJ
Erik
If you go the jesus route, hopefully you will discover the meaning of 'the kingdom is within you'. Remember that the ones who wrote the gospels didn't understand about what jeus was talking. He meant that we have everything inside of us, along with divinity. So, ultimately we have all responsibility for ourselves and all power within.
My opinion S
Hello Eric and welcome
Please do look up the scriptures suggested. Along with them start with JOHN 5:39 and 40 and focus in on the "where" one gets salvation.
The bible "LEADS" us to the one that gives us life. It is "HE" that is "the way" "the truth" and "the life". It is he who sends the "holy spirit" and it is that spirit that teaches us so that we "do not put our trust in nobles to whom no salvation belongs." PSALMS 146:3&4.
"Keep on seeking, knocking and asking and IT WILL be opened to you."
The org has set themselves up as "the truth". As the one to whom we should look to for salvation. They even call themselves, "the visible representation of the lord on earth." They have made themselves as a golden calf or a copper serpent for people to look up to instead of the one that Jah has sent for us to come to. MATTHEW 11:28-30
May you have peace
JUST A MOM (Kim)
We are still looking for an answer to some questions that were posted here last night. I figured I would reply to put it back up top for people to read who weren't on the board last night.
I am especially interested (and so is erik) in whether or not there is proof that The Memorial originates from Pagan rituals, as mentioned earlier on one of these posts. Also, what are some other Pagan rituals or symbols?
Does anyone have information on how I can get a copy of Ellen G. White's writings from Russell's time?
1. Why was there a change in definition of “generation”? Is it new light or is it that those who were alive in 1914 are passing away fast, so there is a necessity to change the view?
For many years leading up to the mid-90s Jehovah's Witnesses had been intriqued with the length of the Biblical "generation" that Jesus said would never pass away. Many of us had come to the conclusion, because of what Moses wrote at Psalm 90, that the generation in question could not exceed 80 years. Interestingly, the WT article that reexamined the generation issue came out on November 1995. That date was 80 full years from October 1914. So, yes, circumstances forced the Watchtower to publish some sort of explanation for those of us who were speculating about what we thought Jesus meant. There are in fact many aspects to Jesus' prophecy about his presence and the conclusion of this system of things that we don't fully understand yet, thus the need to stay watchful and vigilant as Jesus repeatedly urged us.
Erik,
Again, welcome to the board. I knew you'd get a lot of input. I'm assuming your above comment about the apostles being the only ones with Jesus at that time was in regards to "Take this all of you, and it it." I'd like to address that in two regards. First, we don't know from scripture if ONLY the Apostles were at the last supper. We know the Apostles WERE there, but it would be safe to assume that Jesus entire inner circle was there. His mother Mary, the lady's that attended to the needs of the Apostles, etc. Secondly, the Society is always pointing out how nothing is included in scripture by accident. If "TAKE THIS ALL of you" is in scripture, it's there for a reason, and is address to all Christians. Hope that helps. If I've addressed the wrong issue, let me know.
YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]
My mom phoned me and commented on the significance of the t-tower disaster - a sign - never before has there been such destruction.
I reminded her of World War 1 and World War 2, the bombing of London and Paris. Just not on our turf and on live TV. Check out some videos and books and I think you'll find the t-tower's attack much less significant.
About the F&D slave. With their track record you would expect them to have turned in their merit badge by now. Ever wonder why the old books are set aside and not reprinted. My dad always kept the last 10 years bound volumes claiming you had to keep up with new light. Actually if you get a hold of some of the older books and read them you'll get a real chuckle. As I told my dad recently, "I don't think you should let someone who doesn't understand the Bible any more than you do tell you how to run your life."
2. In Revelations, it says that 144,000 are Jewish, Men, perfect, and virgins. Are the apostles included in the 144,000? Who is really part of this number? Because I don’t think all the apostles were jewish, or maybe they were...but they all went to heaven…
All the apostles were Jewish, and yes they are the 12 foundation stones for the spiritual temple that would be built, with of course Jesus as the corner stone, but the 144,000 are spiritual Jews. Just as the physical 12 tribe nation of Israel was founded upon the 12 sons of Israel so too the spiritual nation called Israel sprang from the 12 apostles. Paul later wrote that he that was a jew was one who was a Jew on the inside not on the outside. Many many palces the Christian congregation is referred to as a nation and as Israel.
3. The issue of the annointed. They know they are going to heaven, no question in their minds, they are Jehovah Witnesses.
Yes, that is correct. The anointed know that God has called them to be part of a spiritual organization that will eventually rule over the earth.
4. The witnesses will point out they are no part of this world. You see churches throughout America hanging the flag throughout the churches…are they aligning themselves with the wild beast?
There is no question about it. The churches are very much part of this worldy system of things. Look at they way this recent war has made that evident. Is there really any difference between the flag waving church-goer in America and a flag-burning Islamic in Pakistan or where ever? They are both willing to kill each other to support whatever political ideology they live under. The Scriptures say that the children of the Devil are evident because they are willing to kill their brother. God's children cannot be forced to do that. Apostates, by the way, are said to have gone down the "path of Cain," who was of course the first murderer. That's because they are intent on robbing you of your faith, making them just as guilty of murder in God's eyes as someone who would actually aim a gun and pull the trigger.
5. Are these times the beginning of a worldwide quest for “peace and security.”
No one can say. It may be that there will be a horrific nuclear catastrophe that will then bring the UN certerstage as a real world government and then claim to have brought peace and security. However it goes down it is evident that things are developing to that end. The world has never been so insecure in that any number of terrorists have nuclear and other weapons of mass destruction.
6. Act 2:44 “that those who became believers were together in having all things in common.” I believe there are no changing of beliefs when you go from congregation to congregation within the Jehovah Witnesses vs other religions.
That verse in Acts was talking about material things in common. Nevertheless, we do strive to hold the same beliefs in common.
7. 607 B.C.E. vs 586/587 B.C.E.: Bible history vs. secular history? I have received a copy of Gentile Times Reconsidered, but as of yet I have not had time to read it.
I have read it although it's been a few years now. The conclusion that I have come to is that it is not possible to say with certainty exactly when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians. It seems to me that Jehovah has intentionally made Bible chronology obscure for whatever reason. He could have easily provided a couple of key dates in the Bible that would have allowed us to connect the pre-Christian history with the modern era, but he didn't. 1914 though was definitely a turning point in modern history and also an important period for the Bible Students. While I think we apply too many prophecies to that period, there is no getting around the fact that Jesus said that a great war would mark the beginning of the pangs of distress but that the end would not be for some time.
8. Watchtower teaching on Revelation’s wild beast. It seems to make sense to me, but are there any other interpretations of what this wild beast stands for?
Sure. But they are not reasonable.
9. As far as people going to heaven or people being resurrected on paradise earth, some will say that the 144,000 and the Great Crowd both go to heaven. However, Jesus resurrected Lazarus (John 11) back here to Earth. If when you die you go to heaven, why would Jesus resurrect back Lazarus back here on Earth?
There is no question but that God's purpose is to restore mankind to paradise. That doctrine is unassailable.
10. I have heard some arguments that organization is not necessary to find salvation. But, throughout the Bible, in particular, Acts 2:46, “day after day they were in constant attendance at the temple with one accord”, it seems as though there was an organization among those first century christians.
Yes. There definitely was an organization in the 1st century. Some say that the Bible never uses the word organization because God doesn't have one. But Peter referred to the "whole association of brothers in the world." Now if you belong to an "association" isn't it also proper to say that you beong to an organization? Of course it is. Jesus said that he would gather his sheep into a flock and that he would shepherd them. That flock is an association of Christians---God's organization.
11. When does a fraction of a fraction of a fraction become blood?
That's a tough one. I was never any good with fractions and decimals.
12. Finally, holidays. This is a big question. If Christendom knows that Christmas as well as other holidays are pagan, why are they celebrating them? If there are any other religions other than Jehovah’s Witnesses that are Christian that do not celebrate the pagan holidays, what are they?
Most people don't care. The thing is, Jehovah only draws to himself those who love the truth. His judgment in Revelation is to destroy those "liking and carrying on a lie." That's the difference---knowing the truth and loving the truth. / You Know
Erik,
And Robert, (aka You Know) neither knows nor loves the truth, he's bought a lie). For more on Robert See his "Make a Bet" post, his track record on prophecy runs like that of the WTBTS, he hasn't gotten it right yet.
YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]
I am especially interested (and so is erik) in whether or not there is proof that The Memorial originates from Pagan rituals, as mentioned earlier on one of these posts. Also, what are some other Pagan rituals or symbols?
Christ instituted the memorial of his own death on the Jewish Passover. A few years prior to his death Jesus had made the statment that anyone who did not drink his blood and eat his flesh would not have life. So that's the basis for the symbols that Jesus chose. The wine, Jesus plainly said, represented his blood, and the loaf symbolished his flesh. Naturally the Devil would like to distort the simple but powerful symbols associated with Jesus' sacrificial death. /You Know
