If The Elders Decide To Get You-----They Will!!! (page 3)

minimus

Well said, Shawn.

Seeker, your story really hit me. The Society very rarely overturns what the original JC does unless there are glaring legal issues but in this case they simply didn't care about the truth.

It's the WTS game and rules. Any elder or elder body who claims that they want to meet with you for your benefit is lying. Everything they say, think, or do is for the benefit of the WTS. Any quasi logical or legal response may be perceived as some kind of personal benefit to you but will mean nothing to them.

minimus

Irreverent, you know this to be true!

When I read on the other thread about how some think you can simply outsmart the WT. or elders on a JC and give ridiculous suggestions---it's disturbing to say the least. You can't go in to a JC and believe that you can reason with the elders. You wouldn't be there in the first place if you could just have a friendly discussion.

Fleshybirdfodder

I have to agree. I was pulled into the b-school as they were putting forward a case against my friend based on rumours. I was actually prompted to speculate on whether this brother was guilty even after I told them I had NO knowledge of the accusation. I was only 16 at the time and was terribly intimidated, but I stuck to my guns. He refused to meet with them and eventually was able to fade.

Going to the trouble of taking notes and do delay tactics at a J.C. will simply further piss the elders off and solidify their decision; that is all it will accomplish. My wife and I moved without telling anyone in the middle of the night to avoid meeting them, and they still showed up unannounced at our apartment. They had actually been watching us! We refused to talk to them, finished packing and drove to freedom. Thankfully we haven't been bothered since.

FBF

minimus

Yes, it would "piss" the elders off to even question them.Unless a person is totally mentally disabled and needs to review questions, ponder over them, ruminate and then write a review of the questions and the answers given in its entirety, unless a person is like that-----the elders are going to simply recognize that the person is trying to play a game. That's why I think it should be very rare to meet with an elder body for a JC. Unless they don't have your words against you to use or the words of a witness, screw 'em!

38 Years

Hope all goes well for you Amber Rose! Please let us know how things went with the ~~vultures~~, I mean the JC.

Quandry

We were shocked when the Society wrote back that all 7 DFings stood. I think that was the beginning of the end for me. I realized then and there that this had nothing to do with Holy Spirit or anything like it. These folks were seen as troublemakers and this was a chance to get rid of them that the Society was not going to pass up - Bible principles and the Society's own directions be damned.

Wouldn't you think that a group who obstensibly makes such a fuss about finding people to bring to salvation, expending themselves in door to door work, trying to "change thinking", etc. would want to keep its members instead of throwing them out on such flimsy reasoning?

Wouldn't a real shepherd be interested in showing love to a sheep, helping, listening, etc?

Well, the answer is obvious. The people who occupy the seats in the hall meeting after meeting have no idea that these things go on. I know that I was clueless. I would have argued with anyone who claimed that the Society was wrong. I would have said, "Well, I wasn't in the back room and know that the elders must have done all they could......"

If not for the fact that I saw and heard these type of things with my own ears I still would not believe it. My sixteen year old daughter , all one hundred pounds, was in front of five men that accused her of fornication, lesbianism, gang membership, drug use, etc. Why was she accused of this? Well, the dominant elder, the main spiritual bully, stated that "Little girl's sleepovers are lesbian training grounds." So there you have that one. They lied to her, stating that her friends had said that the stupid teen things they did do were all her idea. They even told another family that she had committed fornication, slandering our family.

We were the model family. Since my daughter had never even been allowed out of the house with anyone without her dad or I or another grown person present up until a few weeks before, the gang thing was an unbelievable stretch. Also, since she was an honor student, had never, ever been in trouble at school or anywhere else in her life, had never taken drugs, etc. we were of course outraged.

The fornication? The men admitted that there was no accusation of such, witnesses, or admission, but went at her for two and one half hours accusing her of being like Annanias and Saphira withholding truth and fell down dead, Achan, who was swallowed up by the ground, and every other case in the Bible of wrongdoers. When she would say that she didn't do anything, they would sneer and shake their heads and moan, and almost yell, "NO, NO." When she still would not admit to fornication, crying and saying she did nothing, they called her a liar. Then they made her read a scripture that she was filth in God's eyes, and would burn in the fire with the devil and his angels.

Of course, they disfellowshipped her, without explaining why. In fact, when the B$%## told her, he said, "And if you're still disfellowshipped when Armageddon comes, you can take some comfort in knowing that God can read hearts."

Do you imagine this was the end? Oh, yes, we appealed. The appeal committee met with us once, but when I started telling them the way they treated my child, they stopped the meeting and said that we'd have to meet again. To show us who was boss the original committee would not meet again for MONTHS!!!! All this time they treated our child as though she was df'd and would not speak to us, either, except to shake our hand or loudly say hi to us if anyone was looking.

We wrote letters to the WTS. We spoke to the D.O. and the C.O. After months of waiting, the WTS upheld the df. They wrote us that "Surely these men have learned a lesson." The appeal committee chairman said we should "Accept it because God allowed it."

It has been over two years now. We have not been to the KHall in about two years. My blood boils when I think of her treatment. She was a child. They made her feel as if she had no right to live and was worthless. How dare they. How dare they....

If any person on this forum is still "in" and thinks that these things just do not happen, that the elders don't just set out to "get you" they may be in for a rude awakening.

wednesday

sometimes if you are very affluent or well liked in the Org, its s harder for the elders to get you. they fear you will take others with you.

You cannot leave a rotten apple in the pile, it will corrupt all the others. they will have to remove you. Or they will end up removing the entire body of elders.

the us government was after AL Capone. Could not get him but finally got him on tax evasion. But they got him.

I hope one day to see the wts go down like that, all the crimes they have committed, perhaps tax evasion will get them.

Seeker4

Quandry;

I've heard stories like your's before, and I know they are true. Any organization that would allow an unaccompanied underage person to appear before a body of older, and very often intimidating, men, is sick. Even "Satan's World" allows for public hearings, guardian ad litems and defense attorneys. I was involved in one case with a 15 year old sister. I was ashamed that we were even dealing with it. I was so happy when the girl's therapist contacted the body of elders and told us in no uncertain terms that what we were doing was a form of abuse in itself, and that she would seek legal action against us if we didn't completely back off and stop meeting with her. That was great!

Minimus,

That situation in Ogdensburg really, deep down in my heart, blew away any faith I had that this was a spirit run organization. It was interesting, that during the evening, while the three of us brought in to hear the appeals were at a hotel talking this over, we called a couple of Bethel heavies who were personal friends - Merton Campbell and Fred Rusk.

They gave us direction just as we expected - judge each case on its own merit, don't lump these 7 appeals all together, do the right thing.

It was good advice - and exactly the opposite of what the Society did. For some of these folks, there was absolutely no grounds for their being DFed. Like you said, when a body of elders, a CO or DO is out to get you, there is little or nothing you can do to prevent it.

S4

PEC

perhaps tax evasion will get them.

How can you evade taxes when you are tax exempt?

Philip

If The Elders Decide To Get You-----They Will!!!

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