by garybuss 67 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
From what I recall, back in the late 70s / early 80s, they used to distinguish between the "other sheep" and "great crowd" by making the latter a part of the former.
- Great crowd: those who survive the Great Tribulation and never die;
- Other sheep: all who eventually have eternal life on earth (including the resurrected).
Always wondered why we had to prepare ahead, it's so easy to find the 'answers', then everyone pats themselves on the back on how they've 'made the truth their own' and 'oh how I've learned'.
I NEVER used to prepare for meetings/WT studies etc
What was the point? You could find the answers and get the points in seconds - when the paragraphs were being read!
They even changed that 20 years ago if you remember. They used to ask the questions, take the answers and THEN read the paragraph in summary.
Once they changed it around and read the paragraph FIRST there was definitely no point pre-studying.
Did they think we were morons . . .
. . .we weren't were we . . .
There is the other type of sheep that you count at night when you're sleeping. What 'class' would they be in?
Outaservice
PS What do you call a GB member with 100 girlfriends? Answer: A Shepherd.
This may help.
***w954/15p.31QuestionsFromReaders***
Questions
FromReadersTechnically
speaking,isthereadifferencebetweentheBiblicalterms"othersheep"and"greatcrowd"?Yes, though we should not be unduly sensitive about word usage or be upset if someone uses the terms interchangeably.
Most Christians are familiar with the passages where we find these terms. John 10:16 is one. There Jesus said: "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd." The other expression, "great crowd," appears at Revelation 7:9. We read: "After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands."
Let us consider John 10:16 first. Who are the sheep? Well, it would be good to fix in mind that all of Jesus’ loyal followers are referred to as sheep. At Luke 12:32, he called those of his disciples who would be going to heaven the "little flock." A flock of what? Of sheep. The "sheep" of the "little flock" will be part of the Kingdom in heaven. However, there are others, those with a different hope, whom Jesus also views as sheep.
We can see this in John chapter 10. After speaking about sheep such as his apostles whom he would call to life in heaven, Jesus added in verse 16: "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring." Jehovah’s Witnesses have long recognized that in this verse Jesus was speaking of people having the prospect of life on earth. Many faithful ones in pre-Christian times, such as Abraham, Sarah, Noah, and Malachi, had such prospects. So we can rightly include them as part of the "other sheep" of John 10:16. During the Millennium, such faithful pre-Christian witnesses will be resurrected and will then learn of and accept Christ Jesus, becoming "other sheep" of the Fine Shepherd.
We also know that since the general call of the heavenly class ended, millions have become true Christians. These too are rightly termed "other sheep," since they are not part of the "little flock." Rather, the other sheep today look forward to living right on into an earthly paradise.
Now, what can be said about the identity of the "great crowd" mentioned at Revelation 7:9? Well, look at verse 13 and the question, "Who are they and where did they come from?" We find the answer at Revelation 7:14: "These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation." So the "great crowd" is composed of those who come out of, or survive, the great tribulation. As verse 17 says, they will be ‘guided to fountains of waters of life’ on earth.
Understandably, though, for these to survive the approaching great tribulation, they must earlier have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb, becoming true worshipers. Hence, though Revelation 7:9 is describing this crowd after the tribulation, we may apply the term "great crowd" to all with earthly hopes who are rendering Jehovah sacred service now, just before the great tribulation breaks out with the nations’ attack on false religion.
In summary, we might remember "other sheep" as the broader term, encompassing all of God’s servants having the hope of living forever on earth. It includes the more limited category of sheeplike ones today who are being gathered as a "great crowd" with the hope of living right through the impending great tribulation. Most of those loyal Christians alive today are of the "other sheep," and they are part of the "great crowd" as well.
It is worth repeating that, fine as it is to be clear on these specifics, there is no need for any Christian to be overly word conscious—what might be called word critical. Paul warned about some who were "puffed up with pride" and involved in "debates about words." (1 Timothy 6:4) If we personally recognize certain distinctions between terms, fine. Yet, we need not, either outwardly or inwardly, be critical of another who may not use Biblical terms quite as precisely.
A publisher's card only offers two choices for a member. They check the box for (1) Anointed or (2) Other Sheep.
There are no other groups, except those that are not in either (1) or (2). The anointed are the little flock.
Maybe a third group is needed------(3) "I don't know yet"
Maybe a third group is needed------(3) "I don't know yet"
Or better yet - (3) If I only had a brain....... (sung to the tune from the Wizard of Oz)
Actually the semantics used to bug the hell out of me even when I was in the org. What does it matter? Just nitpicky "theocratic" terms that set JWs apart from everyone else. We "talk" the pure language and youuuuuuu don't..........
Juni
BTTT for later reading
Narkissos, That's the teaching I remember. But, it seems to me they are just guessing that the other sheep and the great crowd are the same group. Why couldn't they just as well be two separate groups? How do you think they explain the current Watchtower magazine use of the term "other sheep" in the light that the sheep are not yet identified? At best they would just be applicants for other sheep designation.
Pubsinger, The paragraph is read BEFORE the question now? How lame is that?
Outaservice, Good to see you posting. I been missing you.
Justitia Themis, Thanks for the article. So there is a third class of sheep. It's called "limited category of sheeplike ones".
TopHat, I like it! Funny~!
So, what do ya think about the message I got about the three classes of sheep?
I think you may be confusing the WTS' understanding of the "sheep" of Matthew Chapter 25 (who have not yet been separated from the "goats") and the "other sheep" of John chapter 10. The two groups are not (i.e. no longer) considered synonymous.
There are only two groups of sheep- the little flock and the other sheep. That's it. If the sheep aren't separated
from the goats entirely because the judging hasn't taken place, then this JW comment is nonsense.
The way I understood it when I came into the JW organization, the other sheep were being gathered now, separated
from the goats. The little flock of anointed ones was already gathered.
The way I understand it now, the other sheep are still mixed with the goats, but according to John chater 10, they will
know the shephard'vs voice and join the little flock (symbolically join, anyway) when Jesus sits down in his full glory to
judge the nations. Now that understanding is modified to say that the judging of the little flock is not complete. So this
means that as a group, the little flock is judged and separated, but not the other sheep. As individuals, the little flock is
not completely judged yet. No wonder the sheep and goats are still mixed. I can understand that, but as I type it, my
head is spinning from the loopy logic.
Revelation 7:9. We read: "After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands."
Why then does the watchtower try to number this group?
