by The Dragon 74 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I want to know exactly how to Blaspheme the Holy Spirit.. as that is the only unforgivable sin.
Unfortunantly..I nor anyone else knows exactly what that even means...just guesses.
Because I do not..nor anyone else knows how...I cannot choose to be not forgiven for my sins.
So am I free to refuse forgiveness.......yes....but i do not how to do it....so i am not.
Dragon
Are you depressed? You seem a little hopeless and disjointed in your thinking? Are you asking all these questions because YOU cannot see the point of living?
Cog (starting to get worried about you)
Individual "insanity," no matter how many labels or physiological etiologies we may pin on it (and American psychology is very creative at that), can also be construed as the other of social "reason" -- its shadow in a sense.
Social reason ultimately rests on a cognitive syllogism: nobody in his/her right mind would choose to die => anybody who chooses to die is not in his/her right mind. Through this close circular reasoning the reason (and good conscience) of society is assured. The burning question any suicide, and especially the least easily "explained" suicide, throws at the face of society (implying that to this particular conscience the social game called "life" was not worth playing anymore) is quickly explained away through medical or social reasons. Society is safe. No disturbing message is to be heard. Only "insanity," by definition meaningless. The role of medical psychology in dictatorships (e.g. Stalinist) is illuminating: as soon as you disagree you are insane and your word doesn't count anymore.
Isn't it a bit ironical that the fundational story of the Western world (I mean the Gospels) can be read (among other readings, but very powerfully this way) as the story of a planned suicide using society as a weapon -- a man deliberately crashing himself against the "institutions" and "knowledge" of his time?
And he sank beneath our wisdom like a stone...
I am depressed I am out of work right now...
But far from suicidal.....
I just think alot when i get bored.....and I don't think it is hopeless....just hopeless to rely upon humans to explain and figure out God.
Drag,
I just think alot when i get bored.....and I don't think it is hopeless....just hopeless to rely upon humans to explain and figure out God.
You got that right, now just apply this realization to the Bible, since it was written by humans.
The thing that disturbs me about that is...how it is coming true...and contains alot of hidden knowledge and wisdom...
If it was written by humans...those particular humans were very smart...considering we cannot figure them out.
I am inclined to believe it is inspired...but in order to understand it at all..without guessing....will mean we will have to be inspired....and we have no way of knowing who is guessing and who is inspired...a real mess imo.
Well, when your intention became transparent, The Dragon, I showed how your application is faulty. First of all you have to prove to me:
1. That the earth/society is terminally ill.
2. That society as a whole is insane or delusional.
3. That the danger is immenent.
4. Who is in danger?
All four tests would be used to determine if someone has the "right" to shorten their life, would they not?
I am depressed I am out of work right now...
But far from suicidal.....
I just think alot when i get bored.....and I don't think it is hopeless....just hopeless to rely upon humans to explain and figure out God
Yeah, I hear ya Dragon.
My present employment is petering down to nothing and I need to look for another job also. It is depressing to think about. It's so much more fun to ponder the great questions of the universe on JWD than it is to look for work, isn't it? Although, definitely not as financially lucrative. Now, if only we could get someone to pay us for all the wisdom we spout on this forum!
Cog (glad you are OK)
However, to the terminally ill patient and their family, comfort is a primary concern at the end and perhaps an accidental death due to overdose would not be considered the worst thing in such a case? It is a judgement call and what is the primary goal? ... The primary benefit is comfort and relief to the suffering, already dying patient and the risk is accidentally ending an agonizing existence a few days or weeks early. It is a judgement call to be made by the dying, I believe, or at least always with the benefit of the dying person concerned in mind and not the greater good of an abstract moral philosophy or someone else's moral agenda. ...I suspect we are of similiar mind here
Beautifully put, cognitive dissident. I agree, we are of the same mind in regards to the terminally ill. I do hope you know I did not call out your quote to challenge it, but to open the discussion to all angles.
Cognitive Dissident: JW's try to find one solution. God will miraculously save us as individuals and the whole species in one grand gesture. The reality is not so easy, nor so comforting, I'm afraid.
Again, beautifully put.
I still severely dislike The Dragon's choice of analogies. Those I love most in the world walk close to the line, and I live with the dread of losing them early. Hence, my intense interest in this thread. If you are using this analogy to justify that humankind as a whole must accept controls (by who?) because they are too ignorant to stop destructive behavior (to imminent "death"?), you have a much farther row to hoe before I'll plant corn in your patch.
I still severely dislike The Dragon's choice of analogies. Those I love most in the world walk close to the line, and I live with the dread of losing them early. Hence, my intense interest in this thread. If you are using this analogy to justify that humankind as a whole must accept controls (by who?) because they are too ignorant to stop destructive behavior (to imminent "death"?), you have a much farther row to hoe before I'll plant corn in your patch.
Yes, Jnat, I agree with you on this. We cannot use pessimist reasonings such as, "the whole species, world, or planet, is doomed anyway", in some as yet unknown, imagined future, to justify doing nothing to intervene for the good of the people or world that exist in front of us right now, at this present moment in space and time, and whatever the "illness" is.
If Dragon was playing devil's advocate and actually arguing for the opposite, I say the answer is still the same. We cannot use those same pessimistic future reasonings to take away all control and free will from others in the service of some perceived future greater good. I think we have all seen and heard of the human rights abuses that result from that sort of reasoning. I'm thinking of, communism, fascism, (JW's ). All of these systems started out with good intentions of making a better world, but by using control tactics, they ended up causing more problems and harm than they ever solved. I would suggest that the end almost never justifies "any" means.
I do not think I am contradicting myself on the issue of "intervening" with the mentally ill by saying this. Intervening is not always taking away control or autonomy wholly. Sometimes we take it away temporarily, as with the mentally ill, but the goal is always to prevent immediate harm and to return it as soon as possible and restore the person to health and autonomy. The two are seen to be very closely related in health care overall, nowadays. There is still a need for many checks and balances in the system though, because it is recognized how easily taking away control can lead to abuses.
Cog.
ps (you can plant corn in my patch anytime!) That expression made me laugh out loud!
