Gun control logic

by Gregor 174 Replies latest social current

  • Gregor

    This thread makes my point perfectly. Please read

  • BizzyBee

    Sadly, for every gun defense that is successful, there are multiples of these:

    Surprise guilty plea in gunfire Defendant made no deal with DA in shooting of teen at beauty school


    Last Updated: November 1, 2006, 04:55:46 AM PST

    Mick Rubalcava pleaded guilty Monday to all charges in a shooting incident in August that left a 17-year-old beauty college student paralyzed.

    The 23-year-old, who previously pleaded innocent, admitted guilt during a court appearance in Stanislaus County Superior Court.

    He pleaded guilty to one felony charge of bringing a loaded firearm onto school grounds and misdemeanor charges of carrying a concealed firearm and carrying a loaded gun in public. Rubalcava could be sentenced to as long as four years in prison.

    The former security guard was arrested Aug. 4 after bringing a loaded handgun in a backpack into a crowded classroom at California Beauty College, where he was a student. The gun discharged and the bullet struck fellow student Michelle Dalrymple in the back.

    According to Modesto police, Rubalcava said the gun went off after he put the backpack on the floor. He did not have a concealed weapon permit.

    Assistant District Attorney Carol Shipley said Monday that Rubalcava's change in plea was unexpected. The prosecution has no plea agreement with the defendant, she said.

    Judge Donald Shaver will decide the penalty after a sentencing hearing on Dec. 18, during which Michelle Dalrymple and family members are expected to speak.

    "It could be (Rubalcava) knew the crime would be proven and he wanted to expedite the process," Shipley said. "Some people do that. They roll the dice and hope the judge is lenient."

    Heather Maciel, the defendant's sister, said her brother never had intended to contest the charges.

    "Mick was wanting to get this done," she said. "He was not waiting for a plea agreement or anything like that. He takes full responsibility."

    The Dalrymple family said Michelle permanently has lost the use of her legs. Family friend Greg Young said it's up to the judge to hand down the appropriate sentence.

    "There is no sentence that one can serve that is comparable to losing the ability to walk for the rest of your life," he said. "He made a very irresponsible decision."

    Modesto attorney Adam Stewart is representing the family in seeking disability and medical benefits for Michelle. After being shot, she underwent weeks of rehabilitation at Shriners Hospital in Sacramento. She uses a wheelchair and will continue to need therapy for her injuries.

    Dalrymple was a junior at Big Valley Christian High School in the past year and was attending the beauty college through a Stanislaus County Office of Education vocational program that is coordinated with Modesto City Schools.

    According to a claim filed by Stewart, the Office of Education is obligated in its contract with California Beauty College to provide workers compensation benefits to vocational program students.

    The Office of Education has paid at least $5,000 toward Dalrymple's medical expenses, pending a court hearing in November to determine whether the Office of Education or Modesto City Schools is responsible for paying the medical benefits.

  • heathen

    maybe it's because it doesn't make the news whenever somebody uses a weapon to kill off intruders or protect themselves . I am not giving up my right to defend myself . There are millions of people behind that sentiment . Now if you people are afraid of guns maybe you should move to china or somewhere they are outlawed, but for now they are legal so get used to it.

  • free2beme

    Only gun control I believe in, is that I have enough control to hit what I am aiming at.

    As for what you mentioned, universities are normally a playground of extreme liberalism these days. Most students are at a point in their life, when they are trying to make a difference and are influenced easy by liberal instructors and movements that thrive in such an environment. With that being said, V tech, passed a campos law that prohibited even the university security people to not have weapons. They felt this was great, but when this event happened, they had to wait for local police to arrive with weapons to do something. Had those students, teachers, had a gun. It would have not turned out so tragic. Reality though, because of what is truly a liberal environment on most campuses these days, don't hold your breath that this will happen. As this will most likely lead to more cries for tighter gun control.

    A great quote from history, I think of when people talk about gun control, happened when the founding fathers of the United States where writing the constitution. You see, they did not want a nation that could ever be over thrown by the military. So it was suggested, to limit the size of our army to about 1000 men. It was debated, and George Washington was consulted. His quote was basically, "Sounds good, as long as every nation in the world limits there army to a 1000 men too." Basically, you can never have a perfect balance of force. As someone is always going to break or skirt the rules to their advantage. That is why you allow an armed public, to bring an equalization to the reality that chaos can and will happen. You can create law after law of control, and that does not prevent chaos theory, and you have to realize that only preparing for the worst, can you survive. If we had controlled our army early on, to such a crazy limit, our nation would have handed it's freedom over to a conqueror in no time. Handing over gun control, will just mean the whack jobs win, like they did in V Tech. For if someone carried a gun, it would have never gotten that far.

  • dolphman

    Whack jobs? Dude, most of us are simply asking that a person with a history with mental illness and a green card can't walk in and buy a semi-automatic pistol capable of firing 5 rounds a second. I don't think that's a "whack" mentality. I think we need more comprehensive gun laws. Enough of the "you're either with us or against us" mentalities. It's time to really think these issues through. Stop being so worried about a bunch of gunless, wimpy Dems. Are they really that scary? You're the one with the frickin' guns! And I love it when people say "if only the other VT kids had guns, they could've fought back". Uhhhh. Whatever. Are you nuts? Can you imagine what the keggers in the dorm rooms would be like if the kids were armed? There'd be 10 deaths a month from drunk kids playing Russian roulette. Yeah. That's real smart. Give a bunch of drunk 18 year olds raised on violent video gangs and gangsta videos all the guns they want. Solves everything. Geez. Another quote that makes me laugh: "An armed society is a polite society" Really? We're armed, and we ain't very polite. Guns just make an impolite world more deadly. That's it.

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex

    Stupid question: Canada has similar laws (not exact I know) regarding gun usage and control. Why are there so many thousands more gun-related deaths in the U.S. than Canada? Why there school shootings in the U.S. but not Canada? Why is the U.S. so much more violent than Canada?

    I've no "agenda" and I'm not deifying the Great White North, just asking.


  • 5go

    Stupid question: Canada has similar laws (not exact I know) regarding gun usage and control. Why are there so many thousands more gun-related deaths in the U.S. than Canada? Why there school shootings in the U.S. but not Canada? Why is the U.S. so much more violent than Canada?

    I've no "agenda" and I'm not deifying the Great White North, just asking.


    I think it's even legal to own a machine gun in canada with out the crap the us has. It's culture for the most part. Which we american's sadly lack.

  • heathen

    ohh come on now , canadians are nuts , they tear apart cities whenever hockey teams lose in the playoffs . Unbelievable.

    It's culture for the most part. Which we american's sadly lack.

    That korean guy apparently didn't even have to pass a psychological exam to get in the country . The koreans in general have a bad attitude about the US from what I remember seeing whenever a hum v ran over some a couple years ago , their sentiment was that the US military treats the locals like cattle .

  • 5go
    ohh come on now , canadians are nuts , they tear apart cities whenever hockey teams lose in the playoffs . Unbelievable.

    Yeah well seeing as hockey is some what of their creation and is the only sport where you get a penelty for a fight versus ejection.

    But I see it as their culture way of letting it out. Versus the riot that just happen here in my small texas town for no reason what so ever.

    Okay it was the blood and crypts so I guess there was a reason but still......

  • Abaddon

    The US are basically obsessed with guns and illusory freedoms that actually mean many people live their lives in fear. Some freedom.

    As the gun lobby fund politicians nine times as much as the gun control lobby, this will not change, regardless of the rights or the wrongs.

    No one will stop criminals getting guns. But crazies are not criminals, they are crazies. The Virgina killer would have probably been ripped off, even killed by a criminal gun supplier, or been too afraid to contact one.

    As for arguments concerning the Constitution, it's all dumb.

    • First, you CAN change it, otherwise black people and women could not vote. It is NOT tablets of stone from god, okay?
    • Second, to most students of English, the clause on gun ownership is linked to a millita at a time when they did not anticipate a standing army, so is as relevent as buggy whips today.
    • Third, it is talking about single-shot muzzle loaders, not semi-automatics or assault weapons; I think if those men who signed the Constitution were alive today they would not write the law that way in the face of 30,000 dead a year and spree killers.
    • Four, the bleating noise that American's need guns to pwotec themselves fwom the govewnment is pathetic (although given your government is understandable); Eastern Europe freed itself from Communism without mass gun ownership - are Americans cowards that need guns to stand up to despots? Burger-eating surrender monkeys unless they have guns? I don't think so but this is the logical conclusion of some arguments in favour of the status quo.
    • Five, when Americans HAVE had the chance to use guns to protect themsleves from the government, where's the NRA? Where's the gun owners? Hiding whilst students get shot at Ohio U, that's where.
    • Six, the police were apparently delayed in stopping the carnage by citizens going in with guns; more students died because of amateur gun freaks showing-off than would have otherwise.

    I love the 'facts' presented, which;

    • combine suicide with homicide to make gun ownership appear less risky to people other than the owner than it is
    • classify a part of a country that has had civil unrest for decades as a country in its own right (Northern Ireland) to further distort the statistics and make gun ownership seem less risky to people other than the owner
    • amusingly distort things further by ignoring most deaths in the USA are caused by HANDGUNS but counting all guns everywhere as equal

    I congratulate the complier of the table and/or those who have cluelessly spread such statistical tripe for such a manifest disregard of facts and such determination to compare apples to elephants.

    Sadly, you're (the US) &ucked. There is no way short of a door-to-door army search to reduce gun ownership to levels seen in most civilised countries, and if you did that the gun-nuts would die with a self-rightous cry of "I told you so".

    There is one truth; as a society, America is disproportionately violent. There are countries with similarly slack gun laws and comparable GDP/capita and far fewer gun deaths, but they have far far lower levels of social inequality than the USA, and thus far less disadvantaged people who might turn to violence to redress things. As social inequality is getting worse (the US is moving away from European norms and towards, say, Brazil, as far as social inequality goes), the violence is unlikely to get better. If you create a social model where dog eats dog, this is what happens.

    It is this inequality, and desensitisitaion to gun violence after decades of it that ensures the 32 students are far from the last who die like this, and those who die at the hands of the disenfranchised underclass will continue to die, and the deaths will change nothing due to politicians being in the pockets of the NRA.


    The koreans in general have a bad attitude about the US


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