Comments You Will Not Hear at the 4-1-07 WT Study (RESPECT HUSBAND)

by blondie 44 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Robert222
    Robert222

    I could be missing something here, but i don't remember the grounds for divorce mentioned in last week's article about husbands, and this week's article about wives. Almost all couples I have known as JWs are now divorced.

    And, last week's article said that men can tell women how to dress, so forth. This week's article tells women that your husband can tell you what to do and women have to accept it. Aren't both of these articles about how women are in total subjection to their husbands, even if the husband is abusive?

    AND shouldn't the articles preceding the memorial actually be about JESUS and his life and death?? Not about wives being in subjection to their husbands?? I am confused by this.

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere
    However, if anyone chooses to marry, it should be to one "in the Lord," that is, to a dedicated and baptized worshipper of God

    I'm glad they pointed out the importance of marrying a True Postifarian and follower of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

  • RULES & REGULATIONS
    RULES & REGULATIONS

    21) While many wives today may chafe at being in subjection, a wise woman will consider its advantages. For example, in the case of a husband who is an unbeliever, submitting to his headship in all matters that would not mean violating God's laws or principles may well yield the marvelous reward of her being able to `save her husband.' (1 Corinthians 7:13, 16) Furthermore, she can find contentment in knowing that Jehovah God approves of her course and will richly reward her for imitating the example of his dear Son.

    The WTS stress subjection so no one questions them on all their stupid rules and regulations. I love the words they use in paragraph 21.

    My mom has been in subjection to my non-believer dad for over 40 years. She has been praised by the Elders for her subjection to my dad. She worked all her life and handed him her check every week. He decided what they would do with the money. She could never go anywhere without him and if he didn't want to go,she would stay home. My dad never takes my mom on vacations (except twice in 40 years).He doesn't like visiting anyone,never takes her to movies,restaurants or does anything she likes.

    He never talks to my mom.He makes her feel like she doesn't know anything. He's never wrong and it's his way or the highway. One time my mom's sister was visiting from out of town but she couldn't see her because he doesn't like her. So,she didn't go because she is in subjection to him.

    This is subjection at it's worst. She should of walked out on him long time ago but the WTS thinks that she is doing a wonderful thing and that she is setting a fine example.

    Blondie.......Thank you for your hard work!

  • Hortensia
    Hortensia

    Let's see...

    My mother stayed with a violent alcoholic who tried to kill us on many occasions. She went to the elders about it, I remember the meeting with the elders, they said she couldn't leave as my father was her "head" and she had to take what he dished out to please Jehovah (gee, makes me really luv jehovah) and as a witness to others. Makes me want to tear my hair out!!!

    We lived a life of terrible poverty, not helped by anyone in the congregation by the way, except for one family that was kind to us. Eventually my mother got a divorce anyway, but the damage was done, we were almost grown up, too late for us to have any kind of decent family life.

    Then, to show she never learned a lesson, she married an elder, a nice old guy who eventually developed Alzheimer's. I asked my mom once why she didn't get the roof fixed, they certainly had enough money. She said, "Ken says not to." I said, "Ken has Alzheimer's, mom. When are you going to make your own decisions?" She said (and this is priceless!!!)"when the elders say I can." Makes me want to scream.

    I once sat next to a table of six or seven women in a restaurant. They looked like christian wives: permed hair, flowery dresses, stockings and low heels, some how it screamed "christian." They were talking about submission, and they seemed to be trying to outdo each other in telling their stories about how hard it is to be submissive. They weren't complaining, they were showing off. I wanted to puke and to walk over and scream at them "what the fuck is wrong with you? Can't you hear how crazy this conversation is? If you believe in God, why do you think he gave you a brain?"

  • SirNose586
    SirNose586
    She said, "Ken says not to." I said, "Ken has Alzheimer's, mom. When are you going to make your own decisions?" She said (and this is priceless!!!)"when the elders say I can." Makes me want to scream.

    Ugh, so much control oozed through this study. I really hated the part where it said even if he's abusive, she can "win him over by her conduct."

    Guess what, JW ladies! If your man becomes abusive--emotionally abusive, physically abusive, any other type of abusive I can think of--YOU GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE. Don't bank on fixing the problem. You can be submissive all the way to the intensive care unit bed...you can be a good little wife all the way to the shrink's couch...

    Their suggestions are dangerous. Good work as usual, Blondie.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Good call on para. 2. There are many other social changes in society than just Women's Lib.
    to put some blame on it for more women leaving their husbands. More programs for abused
    women and work available to them has emboldened many women to stop being abused at
    home. How much does that factor into the equation?

    Q11) Why did Peter encourage wives to be submissive even to husbands who were unbelievers?

    At 1 Peter 2:21, was Peter encouraging Christian women to stay with husbands that continually beat them? Or was he rather talking to all Christians, men and women, to show "appropriate" subjection?

    Won without a word

    does that mean that these women cannot cry out when being beaten?

    Q12) What benefits were realized by Jesus' submissive course?

    Some unbelieving husbands—even those who are abusive—will become Christians (really only JWs)

    Assuming the wife doesn’t die first…by the way, does that mean she allows the husband to beat the crap out of the children too?

    Notice the questions are not about what the paragraphs are about. The questions are about Jesus and Peter's counsel to wives of
    unbelievers. No mention of abuse.
    I told my wife that para. 11 and 12 are saying that abused wives in "the truth" should stay with their husband. I told my wife that
    she would never stay with an abusive husband. She said "I knew her" but she disagreed about the paragraphs.

    She felt that the JW's say it's okay to separate from an abusive husband. I told her that all the counsel elders are trained to vomit
    out is that it is better to stay unless your very life is at stake. They like to quote the WT and say separation is only accepted in
    "extreme physical danger" situations. She said, "it's up to the woman. How can they make her stay?"

    "They say "You haven't been put in the hospital, I don't see any broken bones or visible scars. If you leave him, you are the one
    who is doing something bad in Jehovah's eyes. He allows you to go to the meetings, still. You will lose any privileges" and they
    hint at marking her.

    She wondered if what I said was really true. I sited an actual name of a person in the congregation. She knew enough of the story
    to know what I was saying. I sited another name of someone who was not physically abused, but verbally berated by her husband. All
    I had to do was say the names. She knew I was right. As she tried to defend the position of those that leave (because she knew she
    would have left) I told her that I was on her side. I was just pointing out that WTS says you should put up with the abuse as a way
    of respecting the marriage arrangement.

  • Gill
    Gill

    I believe that this article is Watchtower 'double speak' at its most psychological and complex level.

    They are saying that no matter how abused the Rank and File are by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, the Slaves MUST stay, afterall, if they left the organization they would be displeasing to Jehovah.

    As with a lot of Watchtower articles there are many double meanings.

    The sheep are regularly beaten by their supposed shepherds, the Elders. The sheep MUST stay, afterall as they so like to quote, 'Jehovah hates a divorcing.'

    It's not just marriage to an abuser that is the problem in this article, but slavery to a book publishing company.

  • jgnat
    jgnat
    So wives are at the very bottom of the power flow chart??

    Actually, there are a few lower:

    • Children
    • "Marked"
    • "Unbelieving Mates"
    • Children of Marked or Unbelieving Mates
  • codeblue
    codeblue

    Thanks for sharing this study.........

    Wonder what my ex is thinking about our marriage and his emotional abuse(by sleeping with many other women)...and he is now married to one of my Bible studies...go figure! Think his conscience ever bothers him???

    Can't wait to meet you and Irrev in May!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Crawfest....)

    Codeblue

  • Robert222
    Robert222

    Regarding Gill's statement - "I believe that this article is Watchtower 'double speak' at its most psychological and complex level." I think that's probably the answer I was looking for. I wasn't confused by Blondie's analysis, I was confused by the actual WA article. The society literature is always bizarre and insulting.

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