NEED HELP: What's wrong with CURRENT Borg policy on molestation?

by Open mind 42 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • Scully
    Scully
    As for criticizing the policy, well, what are you suggesting? A scarlet "M" for molestors to wear at conventions? I'd like that, but my wife would say that would be too much of a "bad witness" for new ones to see. And we know how important it is for them to get on the road to "life". Same logic would apply to not calling them a "brother or sister". Wouldn't want to stumble new ones.

    As for the congregation being kept in the dark, I like that one.

    How about them NEVER being issued an official lapel card from the congregation? How about them NEVER being allowed to use the designation Brother™ or Sister™ again? It would be a simple matter to only refer to them as Mr. or Miss or Mrs. So-and-so (as the case may be) in addressing them publicly - it isn't disrespectful and is the normal formal title that is used to address people in business - or in the documentation that comes from one congregation to another when the individual is moving from one congregation to another. It would merely be a "signal" to insiders that the congregation was following the admonition in 1 Corinthians 5:15 that such a person could not be known as a "brother" due to their serious sins / crimes.

    Me to wife: "How would you like to have a book study at our house and not be told that a child molestor is here. It sure would be nice if there was a policy that protected the friends better."

    It's interesting how the WTS harps on how dangerous TV and the internet is - they say "would you invite people like that into your homes?" And yet here they are assigning people with a history of child molestation to attend Congregation Book Study groups into another family's home. Give me a lousy TV show any day of the week. What irritates the hell out of me to this day is that while the Elders in my congregation KNEW what this individual had done, they (a) chose to send him to my family's house while we were completely unaware of his history and thus unable to at least protect ourselves from him, they also (b) decided that their kids would not be exposed to this person in their homes as well. Nice of them to throw us under the bus, don't you think?

  • Manjana
    Manjana

    I don't know if you know this. But in Denmark there was a court case against the magazine Ekstra Bladet in december 2006.

    It was JW who had sued them, for bringing articles about phedofilia, in the magazines. They lost.

    A journalist wrote that they were told that there was 23.700 cases of molested children in their arcives in Brocklyn.

    A man called Erik Jørgensen from the headquarters in Holbæk admitted that people are getting disfellowshipped for much more less than that.

    I think that 23.700 it only the number we now know about. I'm afraid that there are many more abused children than that.

    Awfull thought

  • Incognito
    Incognito

    I believe the biggest problem with their policy is that it doesn’t acknowledge that Child molestation is a CRIME and ought to be ALWAYS treated as such whether or not mandatory reporting exists.

    The Policies the WTS institute generally are very legalistic & protective of the Organization & show little concern, protection, compassion or support for the injured party or other potential victims.

    Now the policy is to report it to the authorities where that's the law and to make sure the parents know that there will be NO REPERCUSSIONS towards them for going to the police.

    They are masters of Double Talk & as long term Witnesses; we became accustomed to knowing what was really meant when something was publicly stated from the platform or in the Watchtower.

    This organization has always pushed that when matters arise between members, those matters were to be handled within the congregation. Instead of promoting parents to first take the matter to the Authorities, they want congregation Elders to investigate the issue (although they've no formal training in Crime Investigation, Molestation, Psychology or Emotional Support) before going any further. The parent is then told that there is NO REPERCUSSIONS if they themselves wish to take the matter to Authorities. This in itself is a negative statement as it's highlighting a negative aspect (a penalty) instead of promoting a positive (support and assistance). This statement also does not address the Elders position on going to the Authorities.

    Although there may not be 'Official Repercussions', there are always the informal penalties for minor infractions against the Organization (I think Whistle Blowing would be considered more than minor), enforced through-out the congregation, following the Whistle Blower to another Congregation, should they relocate.

    Also, I've heard individual elders from states that don't have mandatory reporting requirements say they would "drop a dime in a heartbeat" on a child molestor even though the law and the Borg don't require it in those states.

    In a hypothetical situation, some Elders might believe that they would do things in certain way. If a real situation arises and they're backed into a corner, they may find that holding the 'company line' is the route they end up taking as they might perceive that to be the safest, easiest & most consistent course of action. Even if they push to go contrary to the remaining Elder body & the Society, they will be heavily ostracized & most likely be removed from their position as Elder.

    The two-witness rule. Well, they've humbly responded on this one as well.
    now if a molestor is accused by two kids for two separate events, that passes the two-witness rule

    Unfortunately, just because having single witnesses to two separate events CAN fulfill the two witness rule, does not always mean that it will. It can depend on who the 2 witnesses are. Are children's accusation treated as reliable or is the first instinct of the Elders to think that the child is lying and to drop the issue? If one of the abused was a child of a J.Witness and the other was a 'worldly' child, would this count as 2 witnesses? Will the 'worldly' event actually be considered an event?

    I understand that when the elders get a report of an abuse with a single witness to the event (the abused party); they are to query the accused as to the truthfulness of the accusation. If the accused denies the allegation, the matter is to be treated as hearsay & is considered as never happening. The Police are not necessarily notified and the accuser is told to forgive the accused & drop the issue as pursuing the matter further by the accuser would be treated as SLANDERING the accused and ‘Causing Divisions’ within the congregation, resulting in possible penalties to the accuser. Records are not necessarily kept, so that subsequent reports pertaining to the same accused could potentially again be treated as a 1st offence.

    Some families whose child was abused may not necessarily come forward to the elders or anyone else, or if they do, the matter might be reported years after the molestation(s) occurred. Even if the Elders ‘investigating’ the original allegation believe the accusation but can't ‘prove’ the matter due to lack of an initial 2nd witness, if no written records are available, these same elders would have to be still active & in a similar capacity of congregation responsibility, going from memory years later when the 2nd witness comes forward. To satisfy the two witness rule, the initial accuser would also need to be available and willing to 'testify' in order for the Elders to move forward.

    In both these scenarios, the potential for a molester to molest many children exists after the initial accusation as there is usually no penalty imposed if denied. Even if a 2nd witness comes forward, the 2 witness rule might still not apply. Since these accusations are to be kept secret, any potential 2nd witness that is feeling intimidated, guilty, confused or embarrassed, may be reluctant to come forward. They may feel that they are alone in their situation and don’t wish to bring ‘reproach on Jehovah’s name’. If they knew that they were not alone, they might feel less reluctant to come forward.

    A question that I have considered many times is that even if a good written Policy on these matters exists, would it really be followed in all cases? The fact that Elders are instructed to first call ‘Legal’ appears that each case might have a ‘unique solution’ applied which may or may not follow any written policy.

    Incognito

  • avidbiblereader
    avidbiblereader

    Best to use the scriptures and let them apply where they may

    Matt 7:15-20 15 “Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men].

    Matt 6:23 23 but if your eye is wicked, your whole body will be dark. If in reality the light that is in you is darkness, how great that darkness is!

    Amplified Tran 1 Cor 4:5 5 So do not make any hasty or premature judgments before the time when the Lord comes [again], for He will both bring to light the secret things that are [now hidden] in darkness and disclose and expose the [secret] aims (motives and purposes) of hearts. Then every man will receive his [due] commendation from God.

    Gala 6:7 7 Do not be misled: God is not one to be mocked. For whatever a man is sowing, this he will also reap;

    The Bible speaks for itself and they are reaping what they have sown, or at least starting to be exposed for what they are, darkness with their teachings and conduct. Get out of her my people Rev 18

    abr

  • dawg
    dawg

    I think the answer to this question is much simpler than many of you... they are men and this is one more brick in the wall that proves it. After years of prophies that didn't come true, building a mansion for returning prophets and the like, this is just another brick in the wall. It's that simple. Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem with anything they do if they didn't effect family relationships with their bullshit; what makes me mad is a member can't even question their dictates. SO if they were wrong in the past about the handling of molestation cases and have since changed, that doesn't mean jack squat when a person can't see the organizations' wrong on their own in the first place, challenge them on it without being thrown out and kept from their damn families. I HATE THESE BASTARDS for their arrogance and their unbelieveable ignorance! To the person that started this post, get out man, get out before you suffer pain the likes of which you may never have been able to imagine. The hurt these fools have caused to thousands of famlies is unforgivable, get out before the WTBTS comes up with some dictate they believe God's spirit has given them that casues your family to suffer, as the suffering will have no justification whatsoever and will be completely unnecessary. GET THE hell out my brother!

  • TopHat
    TopHat

    The JW parents should go straight to the police and skip the Elders.

  • wanderlustguy
    wanderlustguy

    No reprieve for those disfellowshipped before the rule change for disobeying orders.

  • VanillaMocha73
    VanillaMocha73

    Well, when I lived in some bad apartments, I got fliers in my mailbox with address and pictures of registered sex offenders in my complex. (Talk about scary - I got three in one day). Having gone to two KHs with sex offenders, why not post their information on the bulletin board? I mean, I am going to get their picture in my mailbox, or I am going to see it at the post office (the case with one "brother" I was forced to go in field service with). What would be wrong with posting this at the KH too?

  • Open mind
    Open mind

    Thanks again everyone for all your input. It really helps me keep things in perspective.

    Scully:

    Please bear with me while I try to rewire decades of Borg-designed circuitry in my brain. In re-reading this thread, I can't believe I just blew off your "No lapel badge" and "No Brother/Sister Title" so quickly. Sorry about that. Even though I think I'm free, I know I'm only part way there. I just went into automatic dub-think. On a second look, I agree with those ideas & will bring them up with my wife at the right time. The whole "new ones wouldn't understand" argument is bull. New may already notice that some at the conventions aren't wearing lapel badges and would probably just lump molestors in with other new ones who don't have badges. As for the "Mr./Ms." for of address in the K Hall, they would get the same impression initially.

    Dawg:

    Thanks for your advice, but my crystal ball says that if I get out now I'll probably be looking at a messy divorce complete with a child custody fight and be painted as the "raving apostate" and have almost zero influence on my kids. My plan is to take it slow and try to slowly wake them up. It took me years, why should I expect any less from my wife and kids. If it doesn't go as planned, at least the kids will be adults if/when my wife chooses the Borg over me.

    Thanks again,

    Open Mind

  • jelcat8224
    jelcat8224

    I just want to thank everyone on this thread for all their input. Even though I didn't start this thread, I too am in a similar situation. Trying to bring this subject up with my parents. Both of my grandfathrs were molesters (though not JW's), and so I'm hoping this may just be my smoking gun to wake up my parents. Since they both have first hand exp. with molesters, they have truly the utmost HATE and DISDANE for them. After I moved out of my parents house and into another hall I learned that there was a MS in the hall I grew up in who is a registered sex offender. I used to HUG THIS MAN AS A LITTLE GIRL!!!!!!!!! Makes me want to puke! Then my parents moved to a new hall where they then learned there was a pedophile in their midst (although the elders would not give up the identity). This info came in the form of a local needs/marking talk!! ABSURDITY!!! This thread I feel has given me all the ammo I need, as I did not previously have knowledge of the actual policy of the org. on molesters! THANK YOU ALL!!! And I wish you the best of luck Open Mind, truly. jelcat!

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