NEED HELP: What's wrong with CURRENT Borg policy on molestation?

by Open mind 42 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • Mile 0
    Mile 0

    See the F&D slave is humble and responsive to criticisms. Yes we've had bad apples and bad local BOEs, but that's what you get with a human organization. Everything's fine. Go back to sleep.

    The cognitive dissonance must be tremendous for the average dub. They fervently believe that god is "directing" the org, but it took stark exposure from prime-time media to force the Society's hand. If this hadn't happened it is likely that it would still be the same old same old. ONLY WHEN the borg sees their bottom line threatened, will they change anything. Lawsuits would hit them where they live.

    Mile 0

  • Tuesday
    Tuesday

    Has there ever even been a case of two witnesses for something like this?

    Also if there's a database that is somewhere online of known pedefiles that are still witnesses, that would be extremely helpful I would say if one happened to be in your area or in close proximity.

  • lesterd
    lesterd

    Can of worms.

    Whats forgiveness for?? Stock answer, Right answer?

    My X brother-n-law molested my wife, cheated on his wife with every female between San Fran and Sacramento, arested and convicted of rape, dissfellowshipped, reinstated, now an elder,

    Stuff happens

  • FairMind
    FairMind
    While those cases may be in the past, most places don't have a Statute of Limitations anymore

    Problem is that if the crime took place before the statute of Limitations was done away with then it is grandfathered into the previous statute of limitations law and can't be prosecuted.

  • FairMind
    FairMind
    My X brother-n-law molested my wife

    Was your wife a child at the time your X brother-in-law molested her? Just curious.

  • blondie
    blondie

    If you saw Brother Willfull murder his wife Sister Willfull, would you go to the police first or the elders and let the elders handle it? If you would go to the elders first and let the elders handle it, would the elders tell you that there has to be 2 eyewitnesses before you or they can go to the police..........

  • Beep,Beep
  • Beep,Beep
    Beep,Beep

    "I really wish they had kept the two-witness rule totally in place."

    "Notice what the WT policy further states along these lines: However, if two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony may be deemed sufficient to take action.

    "Its about time they changed that rule," some may exclaim. "No doubt credit can be given to Bill Bowen and his SilentLambs organization for this change." But the truth is that this was stated as far back as 1981 in the Pay Attention to the Flock Book. It instructs on page 119: If there is another witness to the same type of sin on the part of the accused, this would be basis for forming a judicial committee."

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Certainly the "two witnesses rule" was understood in my day as the last post said. I recall discussing it at elders school up to the mid nineties in relation to smoking cigarettes . If congregation received two separate reports then it could act. I have a note scribbled in my photo copied pages of my old "Shepherding the Flock " book " Only one witness to each offence OK "page 111 Unit 5b says

    " The testimony of youths may be considered, it is up to the elders to determine if the testimony has the ring of truth"

    " If there are two or three witnesses to the same kind of wrongdoing but each one is witness to a separate incident. their testimony can be considered. Such evidence may be used to establish guilt but it is preferable to have two witnesses to the same occurrence of wrongdoing"

    My personal take on all of this know? I do not use it as an argument against the WTS. They can refute by saying that they do have a policy to d/f known abusers , the problem is catching the so and so's.

    I agree with posters above who say that untrained elders should never interview a victim child . They should always report such crimes immediately to the authorities. We know that authorities do not always get it right either, but at least it is off the hands of the congo.

    There is a deep distrust of "Satans world" that permeates tis org. Many believe that Courts will thow an innocent man into prison on the word of a spiteful or deluded child or an adult suffering "flasbacks" of memory that are not real .

    When i was an elder I recall being asked to submit the names of any sex offenders to the Society so they could make up the infamous private sex offenders list . That seemed ok at the time. I wonder if the Data Protection laws have since changed all that?

  • beginnersmind
    beginnersmind

    My opinion/experience for what its worth is I agree that the police should be informed in every case of suspected child abuse. I hear comments like the elders should report it wether the law requires them or not but ultimately its the parents responsibility. However I believe if one goes to the elders they should ask wether the police have been informed and if they say no then they should 'encourage' them strongly that they do. I had a conversation with an elder a short while back and we were talking about this subject and I asked him if he suspected his child was being abused by another witness what would he do? He threw the question back at me and I said I would immediately inform the police. He said of course you would and so would I and he also said he would encourage others to go to the police if they hadnt already.

    I can not understand any parent not going to the police in this situation and therefore making redundant that the elders should it. Its a heinous crime and as already has been said if you suspected or knew of someone who murdered someone close to you you would immediately go to the police so why not this?

    On the point of how they handle suspected or convicted child abusers afterwards i think it would be very difficult to get it right from a Christian perspective. Imagine someone who has abused a child and is genuinely repentant and i mean genuine. Should an announcement be made to the whole congregation about what he's done? If he moves should there be an announcement at his new hall saying Bro so and so has moved in and he abused a child in the past but he's sorry for it? Put yourself in that situation. Would you want that? I have no answer to this problem.

    The difficulty would be to know for certainty that someone is genuinley repentant or not. If they have done it more than once obviously that an indication. I guess my question is if the policy is so wrong now and ones are suffering (btw i do not question this) is it ok to change it to a policy that says they should announce to the congregation of ones who they know (convicted or by confession) have abused children if its going to ruin the lives (yes i know invariably the victims life is ruined as well) of someone who did it once but is truly sorry for what he's done? ie doesnt matter if the odd few genuinely repentant ones suffer as long as we get the rest.

    I dont think its possible to have a policy that would please everyone as we all have different levels of forgiveness and empathy which would effect what we would want doing however i do agree changes need to be made to the current one. For one thing i dont think elders should deal with it all. Its a crime and should be reported to the authorities. If the suspect denies it but is found guilty in a court of law the Witnesses should abide by that verdict (even though more than likely there werent two witnesses) and treat him accordingly. And thats the problem 'accordingly'. I do not know in the full sense of the word what that is.

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