MORE DRIVEL FROM APRIL 15TH WT STUDY.....

by Mary 38 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Mary

  dh asked: what qualification do they have exactly?

  I think we all know the answer to that:

  AlmostAtheist said: Imagine what good the folks at the Watchtower could do if they turned their attention to something worthwhile? If they aimed those propaganda guns at world hunger or AIDS, they could work miracles.

  I've long thought that. For example, Saturday mornings, if they encouraged the brothers and sisters to work with the homeless, or do an hour of visiting elderly ones in nursing homes, or opened a Soup Kitchen, or volunteered with Habitat for Humanity.....it would be an AWESOME contribution to society and might even help repair some of the damage done to the Organization's reputation which has taken a beating in the last 5 or 6 years. It's such a shame that the talents and organizational skills that many R&F have, aren't being put to good use. Not only would it help the communities, but I always felt better about myself when I did volunteer work.

  Elsewhere said: The WTS seems to be very worried about people leaving the organization. My advice to them is to wait on Jehover who will solve the problem in his own due time.

  LMAO!! Good one!

  blueblades said: Show that rejecting the organization is tanamount to rejecting Jehovah and his purpose to "gather all things together again in the Christ". ( Eph1:10 ).Make it clear that only those who come into and remain in unity with Jehovah and his organization will get life.

  Yep, I remember reading that. Once again, it's totally twisted. That scripture says that Jehovah will gather all things together in the Christ----the Christ----not a manmade organization.

  I guess many in the rank and file are not swallowing this warning and don't believe that the Watchtower is Jehovah's organization anymore. Mary, Thanks for all your input, you add much to this forum, keep it coming.

  I agree. With the internet availability, more and more are finding out that alot of their teachings simply make no sense and they ARE questioning it. Thanks for the compliment!

  Dan the Man said: Let me guess, the paragraphs mentioned are accompanied by corny photos of a packed-full congregation of smiley-sunshine jaydubs, with captions such as 'We receive Jerhover's warm spiritual blessing by associating with his happified people'.

  Surprisingly, no there isn't! There's one picture of elders and MS's in suits all sitting there with a forced half smile on their faces as they listen to a brother sitting there yapping at them, most likely about 'following Organizational procedures.'

  Complex Compound asked: A favor, please. Could you repeat that info on your father's and other older ones' reaction to the ass'y speaker's smug comments about the deplorable lack of faith re: retirement and no money. It was a past thread or post.

  No problem....I can't remember where exactly I said it, but several years ago at the ASSembly, the District Overseer gave a talk and said "...Brothers, if you knew 50 years ago that Armageddon wasn't going to be here by now, do you think 'I would have done things differently'??? Well you shouldn't feel that way brothers!" This, from a self-righteous, pompous asshole (who I happen to know quite well), who has never worked a day in his life. He started pioneering right out of high school, was a missionary and DO in South Africa for 35 years and lives in La-La-Land. Afterwards, my father and several other now-retired brothers, were extremely pissed off and were talking about it afterwards. The one said "What are they trying to do? Drive us away? Of course we would have done things differently!" My father said he nearly got up, walked out and would have never returned. I wish he had've.

  And if it isn't hijacking your own thread, your comments and that photo you did of the KH roof being opened up to the worship of the 24 heavenly elders [at least the link, please].

  Hmmm.....are you sure that was mine? I don't recall that one....I looked through my pictures and didn't see that. Closest one I've got is the one where I put Freddie Franz' face over Jesus':

  

  Do you personally feel there is an outside influence upon the GB, given their unsavory connections with "the world"?

  I believe it's called "Satan's influence" and yes, I'm serious. These guys KNOW that what they're teaching is wrong, wrong, wrong, yet they continuously do it. There's no way Jesus would want anything to do with such a dishonest organization as this.
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  SirNose586

  Let's do a bit of analysis...

  Paragraph 15 reads" In modern times, some have ceased associating with the local congregation, feeling that they will serve God on their own.

  But with that statement, they conveniently ignore all the people who find a loving, local church for association. It's embarrassing to them to even suggest that someone could come from a Christian church, join the Borg, and then go back to the local church.

  They may say that it is because their feelings were hurt, they think a wrong is not being corrected, or they cannot accept some teaching. How reasonable is their course?

  Notice how they describe leaving over hurt feelings, injustice, and disbelief of doctrine as altogether unreasonable. The definition of reasonable is essentially, "conforming to logic." Hurt feelings, injustice, and disagreement over principles are reasons why people leave sports teams, charities, professional organizations, churches, corporations, etc. These resignations happen all the time. Michael Brown resigning from FEMA comes to mind as one example, and there are many more.

  People have a right to leave an organization--provided they are not contract-bound--if they leave for the forementioned reasons. A less legitimate reason to leave would be greed. But it all comes down to the freedom to make a choice, which is the key word here. The WT is trying to deny you the freedom of choice by making you feel guilty for leaving for those three reasons.

  While it is true that each Christian should have a personal relationship with God, we cannot deny that he is using a worldwide congregation, as he did in the apostles' day.

  Did you catch that? The WT was all set to examine the reasonableness of leaving for those three reasons, but they didn't! Instead, their only response to those conditions was, "We have a congregation that God is using"--which they cannot prove (and is another subject entirely)--"so your logical reasons for trying to leave are irrelevant."

  The only correct ways to attack an argument is to attack someone's logic, or provide more authoritative evidence in your defense. So instead of convincing people why leaving for those reasons would be wrong--which would be difficult to do, given my arguments about the previous sentence--they must appeal to their own authority.

  Also, notice that they have re-routed your personal relationship with God through the organization. You're not allowed to have a personal relationship with God that becomes independent of the congregation of your choice. You are denied independence. You are denied freedom of choice.

  Furthermore Jehovah used and blessed local congregations in the first century, arranging for qualified elders and ministerial servants to benefit the congregations. That is also true today."

  Other churches have similar organization structures, but simply as different names. Elder becomes pastor or minister, and ministerial servant becomes deacon.

  With all the articles of elders and ministerial servants who've abused children, or testimonials of people who've been emotionally abused by elders, how can the WT claim that their congregational leaders are any better than those of other churches? You can find clandestine recordings of judicial committees where the accused is slandered, insulted, and bullied.

  Furthermore, the freedom of choice comes into play once more: if a person felt insulted or bullied in any other church, he would leave. Although "bad blood" might exist between certain ex-members and the congregation, it cannot be compared to the strict shunning of the Witnesses. If you were mistreated in the Witness faith and subsequently wanted to leave, you would be branded as "worldly" and "spiritually weak."
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  Big Tex

  While it is true that each Christian should have a personal relationship with God, we cannot deny that he is using a worldwide congregation, as he did in the apostles' day. Furthermore Jehovah used and blessed local congregations in the first century, arranging for qualified elders and ministerial servants to benefit the congregations. That is also true today.

  I remember, back in the late 80's when I was exiting, I talked with several elders about this point. I wanted to know what organization Jehovah used after the first century until 1919 (when Jehovah magically decided the International Bible Students were "it"). I wanted to know what organization Jehovah used before the nation of Israel (talking several thousands of years here). There was no organization.

  But most especially I wanted to know what the average spare Israelite did during the reign of one of the bad kings. I mean what did a faithful worshiper of Jehovah do when his "chosen" organization went bad. And it did frequently. If one wanted to stay true to Jehovah, even though Jehovah's designated organization had gone apostate, what exactly did that person do?

  Realize there would have been no priesthood, no temple to go offer sacrifices to, no way to follow the Mosaic Law because Jehovah's organization had gone apostate. I remember pointing out that the problem during those times was not with the individual, not with Jehovah, but with Jehovah's organization.

  So wouldn't having a personal relationship with God be of utmost importance? Wouldn't it be of more value, be of more importance, to follow put your relationship with God above that of an admittedly imperfect human organization? Since they admit in these two paragraphs to not only making mistakes, but not correcting wrongs, wouldn't it be wiser to follow God rather than men?

  Needless to say, those elders didn't like that very much.

  Chris
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  aSphereisnotaCircle

  some have ceased associating with the local congregation, feeling that they will serve God on their own. They may say that it is because their feelings were hurt, they think a wrong is not being corrected, or they cannot accept some teaching.

  And yet, the Society would say that these are excellent reasons for leaving any other religion.
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  avidbiblereader

  Great commentary Mary and thanks for all your efforts as always, I do believe in their pharse though in para 16

  he spoke of being "rooted and beign built up in [Christ]."

  That is why I do not go there, niether would Christ, keep directing disciples after themselves and not to the Christ, this is getting scarier and more scarier, but then again it is helping me and others to see that we should run from this conduct and teaching and flee to Christ.

  If Christ came back in the flesh they would DF him in a week or less, he would not be invited out as a socially acceptable person, they would reject his teaching as heresy or apostate.

  abr
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  andyviw

  Oh No! not again, I remember when we were told from the watch tower mag. that their attendance was going to sky rocket in the final days and

  other religons were going to go under. Has any one listened to Joel Olsteen lately and the beatiful and positive message that he has about God and life,etc.

  I recently seen that the wbts is near or at an all time low,Yes the Spirit is being poured out but on who? I believe it is as Joel said on all sorts of flesh world wide,those who hearts are truly directed towards God and His son Jesus christ not some man made org.

  Even false teachings are not going to keep God from gathering the Great Crowd from all nations tounges and peoples in these last days,

  Consider the incredible high rate of those leaving the wtbts.Let your Kingdom come let your will be done on this earth as it is in heaven!
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  Mary

  Big Tex said: I wanted to know what organization Jehovah used after the first century until 1919 (when Jehovah magically decided the International Bible Students were "it"). I wanted to know what organization Jehovah used before the nation of Israel (talking several thousands of years here). There was no organization.......I wanted to know what the average spare Israelite did during the reign of one of the bad kings. I mean what did a faithful worshiper of Jehovah do when his "chosen" organization went bad. If one wanted to stay true to Jehovah, even though Jehovah's designated organization had gone apostate, what exactly did that person do?

  Exactly. I asked an elder once "...If the nation of Israel turned apostate, and if the first century congregation (of who, many had known Jesus personally), supposedly apostacized within 60 years of it's inception, then how can we expect that the WTB&TS can't do the exact same thing?" The answer I got (after a stunned, stupified look) was "...Well um.....Jehovah wouldn't let that happen because we're so close to Armageddon."

  Wow, great answer Brother Moron. Is that the best you could come up with? No surprise really....doesn't the bible say " ...he that is having dealings with the stupid ones will fare badly."
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  DaCheech

  well, how many pedophiles are walking free amongst the brothers and sisters, including their victims, and nothing's ever been done about it?

  What's funny about this is that todays public speaker told the audience how false religion was trying to hide under the rug their pedophile ways.!!!!
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  moshe

  Great points everyone- I would really like to attend one of these WT studies . I find it hard to believe they willingly accept all the crap coming out now.
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  nvrgnbk

  News Flash

  For any apostates interested in starting their own group(that is the true agenda of all apostates) the society has explained the one all-important element that will legitimize said group. Give a bunch of guys the title of Elder. Give another bunch of guys the title of Ministerial Servant. Now you're ready to open shop!

  Thanks for the tip WTBTS,

  Nvr