A Question for Underground Apostates, How Many Are There?

by Village Idiot 58 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot

    When I first came to this forum I was of the belief that those of us who were still in due to family reasons were few in numbers perhaps one in a thousand in the Jws. Soon I came to the realization that there were many more. We have dozens of posters here who are mentally out but still in. So I then started thinking that perhaps 1% or so of a typical congregation were 'underground' apostates.

    So my first question is, how many on this board are still in?

    My second question, What percentage of the congregation know TTATT but are still in for whatever circumstances?

    Then there is the possibility that the numbers might exceed 1%, perhaps 2 or 3%. That would mean that there would be 2 perhaps more underground apostates in a congregation probably unknown to each other.

    My third question is, Do you know of any other underground apostate (not including your spouse or children)? Do you talk to each other about TTATT?

  • OneEyedJoe
    I'm still in. I'm fairly sure that there are no other apostates in my congregation as such, but there are a few in their late tees that I suspect are destined to wake up once they get out of their parent's house.
  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney
    What scares me about the half-in, double-lived teens is that they're not really mentally out and a good scare like a close friend dying or something can usher them right back into the arms of the cult.

    I suspect 1-2% is probably an accurate number for fully-awakened active JWs.
  • DesirousOfChange

    I believe it's a "Great Crowd".

    And with more changes like the Overlapping Generation; GB = F&DS; Money Grabbing from the local Congs; new Kingdom Hall building donation scheme..........there will be a lot more soon.


  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot

    OneEyedJoe, Teenagers are their Achilles heel. They cannot perpetuate their organization with so many dropping out.

    Mad Sweeney, I also suspect that there might be at least one per congregation.

    DesirousOfChange, It definitely looks like a great crown with all the newbies coming in to this site at the rate of several per day.

  • DwainBowman
    In the congregations I am stuck in has around 100 pub's. I count around 6, that are in so called "Good Standing" yet do nothing, and half of these only come now and then. They neve take part in the meetings, or fs. I am in the coldest congregation, I have ever been in. It has ran off more people, in its history, with made up rules, and extremely harsh treatment, of even little old sisters!! My brother in law was counting, ones that had been miss treated while he was growing up. Close to 30. He was dfed, for saying he went to an R rated movie, then admiting he lied, just to fit in with classmates! Yet he is Hardcore jw elder!
  • Giordano

    If you had a congregation of a 100 the Society says 1 person, on average, is DF and or DA each year(?) That of course for a JW with a family in......... is pretty serious. Far less serious is someone who fades.

    What do we make of those who attend but only turn in an hour or two of service each month? How about those that don't contribute as volunteers or as donor's?

    A person who misses a lot of meetings.Takes vacations but not assemblies.

    Steps out of a position or turns down a position. Becomes an amicable JW bystander.

    Thinking back I did all of those things when I was learning TTATT and planning our exit. Everyone I knew who left did the same....... everyone on this site says pretty much the same thing. Your out but still in for perfectly good reasons. You keep it private so you can hide in plain sight.

    How many each year in an average congregation of 100 display some of that kind of indifference?

    I think 10 to 30 percent are no longer strong witnesses or believe all of the stuff that is being taught.

    Everyone has learned to keep their mouths shut.

    Pew says 67% of born-ins don't identify with the Society/JW's I think the data was from a very small number of JW's.That figure is reversed with Mormons from a bigger survey.

    Either way over 30% are no longer identifying........ many are just not out yet.

  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot


    "I am in the coldest congregation...extremely harsh treatment..."

    Have you thought of switching congregations?

    @ Giordano:

    "Either way over 30% are no longer identifying........ many are just not out yet."

    There must be a lot of burn-outs as I refer to them. I wonder if there can be a safe way to communicate to them TTATT.

  • Phizzy

    "Either way over 30% are no longer identifying........ many are just not out yet."

    I think that is about right, but I do not think this figure represents " Underground Apostates".

    These people are simply ones who know in their heart that, to quote the Bard, "there is something rotten in the State of Denmark".

    They do not know details, or anything like TTATT.

    They are potential recruits for our ranks, but it will be leaving that leads them to TTATT, no way will the vast majority of them learn anything of TTATT before they leave, sadly.

  • Richard_I

    I'd say maybe 1000 of all active JWs worldwide are active publishers but mentally out. I put my 2 hours in a month, nobody really talks to me at the meetings, i never comment, i get to the meetings 5 minutes late or just as the opening song is to be played, and leave within 5 minutes after the meeting. Some elders bother me about my activity but I just tell them I'll work on it and school's keeping me busy. I enjoy my "violent" video games and the occasional R-rated movie. I hope to be completely faded/disassociated within 2 years.

    Even guys I knew who came to one or two meetings a month still seemed super in it, which i always found strange. I don't think I'll ever meet somebody else mentally out but still an active JW, it's too risky to admit it to others and then get ratted out.

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