How did I conclude it was not the 'truth'?

by jgnat 56 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  dedpoet

  Fred wrote

  I believe there to be a technical error in the statement you just provided. I believe that Jesus Christ choose the FDS and the FDS selected the GB from amongst themselves. The various legal instruments (including what you call the Watchtower Society, though there are in fact several legal entities around the world with Watchtower Society or Watch Tower Society in their names) are used by the FDS and its GB to accomplish the assignments given to them

  Why don't you just attempt to answer Jeff's question, instead of dancing around it? Your reaction is so typical of all the jws we get on here, giving watchtower answers where they have one, and avoiding the questions where they don't. You've done exactly what Jeff indicated he expected you to do in his post, and what I thought you'd fo when I read his question.

  You didn't exactly answer my question either. Just to remind you, having pointed to some of the falsehoods the watchtower society were perpetrating at the time of Jesus supposed inspection of the various religions, I asked:

  Do you really think that Jesus, if he did return then, and again we only have the watchtower's say so on that, would appoint a group of men who were dealing out such rubbish to be his earthly representatives?

  Your answer, though I am hesitant to call it that, was

  It would have been interesting to live in those times. There sure has been a lot of refinement over the years. I am really glad that I was there when JWs studied their publication entitled Jehovah's Witnesses — Proclaimers of God's Kingdom. The Appendices in the All Scripture Is Inspired and Beneficial book have also been very faith-strengthening. Even the What Does the Bible Really Teach? book helped me to retrace which steps I'd skipped before baptism, which had hindered in the progress I could have otherwise made. Keeping in step allowed me to be prepared for each bit of new understanding, including the need for me to point out to the elders in my Congregation that my baptism shouldn't have been rushed the way it was. Growing comes with pains and turmoil, but the added perspective and strength are certainly worth it, considering the challenges of the adult world, whether physically or spiritually.

  I ask you again Fred, why would Jesus, if he really did return, choose a religion who had clearly interpreted the scriptures with such inaccuracy as to say that armageddon would definitely arrive in 1925, and who taught with absolute certainty that this was so as the scriptures confirmed it? The watchtower society was clearly wrong on this, and were thus guilty of the worst kind of false prophecy. Many of those who believed what they said sold their homes and properties to preach full time as 1925 approached. Did the watchtower apologise to these people when 1925 came and nothing happened? Not at all- they merely insisted that armageddon would be "soon", which they still do of course. The watchtower had it wrong then, and they have had it wrong ever since. There is no way that Jesus could have possibly chosen such charlatans do represent him on earth at that or any other time. You may not be able to see through their deception, bu he most certainly would have been.

  dedpoet
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  jgnat

  So you accept their claimed divine appointment on faith, without checking. You have the mind and the skills for this kind of research. You are no Berean, that is for sure. I am disappointed.

  Here's an excerpt from Barbara Andersen's search through the Watchtower archives:

  One extraordinary discovery was that William H. Conley, an Allegheny, Pennsylvania banker – not Charles Taze Russell – was the first president of the Watch Tower Association formed in 1881. This was a thrilling find for no one at headquarters knew Conley was the first president, or that Russell’s father, Joseph, was vice president and Charles Taze was secretary-treasurer. The appointment was based on shares purchased for $10.00 each. Because I handed over the source document almost immediately, I’m not certain of the exact number of shares Conley purchased, but I think it was 350 for $3,500. However, I do remember that Joseph Lytel Russell purchased 100 shares for $1,000.00, and Charles Taze purchased 50 shares for $500.00. When I looked at page 576 of the new Witness history book where the Conley information was noted, it is curious why Karl Adams did not include the fact about Joseph Russell’s vice-presidency. Also omitted was the number of shares purchased by each man.

  These important facts were noted on the first page of a small, red, cardboard-covered accounting-style notebook where I also found the original hand-written organizational charter. The paper was folded over twice, with one side pasted to the inside cover. Through handwriting comparisons, there is no doubt in my mind that Charles Taze Russell’s wife, Maria, penned this first charter. I found the little notebook in an old paper file folder inside a file cabinet in a walk-in concrete vault located in the middle of the Watchtower’s Treasury Department at 25 Columbia Heights.

  http://www.freeminds.org/women/barbdiscovery.htm
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  Fred E Hathaway

  And which alternatives were superior?
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  jgnat

  Alternative to a false prophet? Any! 2 Peter 2:1

  Did you know that the original Bible Students still congregate?

  House Churches: http://housechurch.org/
• 

  dedpoet

  Fred wrote

  And which alternatives were superior?

  Fred, there didn't have to be any alternatives. We only have the watchtower's word that this alleged inspection even took place, to support their claim to be the only religion truly representing God and Jesus on the earth at this time.

  I have researched the publications that they were using at that time, not just the links I cited in my post, and rhe fact is the watchtower were guilty of false prophecy, which I am sure you know is punishable by death, according to Deuteronomy 18:20-22. Surely, if Jesus did inspect the various religions at this time, and I have seen no proof that he did, the watchtower cannot prove it happened, then he would not have chosen any that were publishing falsehoods.

  dedpoet
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  Fred E Hathaway

  to jgnat: First of all, the individuals must qualify according to Scriptural standards. Since I don't qualify myself, I can't judged their status. It's a few grades ahead of where I'm at, so to speak.

  Regarding W.H. Conley, I find the following information on page 576, in the book Jehovah's Witnesses — Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, published by Jehovah's Witnesses, ©1993: The following year [1880] the first of an extensive series of tracts designed to interest people in Bible truths was prepared for publication. This work quickly took on immense proportions. In order to handle it, Zions' Watch Tower Tract Society was formed on February 16, 1881, with W. H. Conley as president and C. T. Russell as secretary and treasurer. Arrangements were made for printing to be done by commercial firms in various cities of Pennsylvania, New York, and Ohio, as well as in Britain. In 1884, Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society was legally incorporated, with C. T. Russell as president, and its charter showed that it was more than a society that would direct publishing. Its real objective was religious; it was chartered for "the dissemination of Bible Truths in various languages."
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  Fred E Hathaway

  Who was truer at the time, from Jesus' perspective?
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  Fred E Hathaway

  False is based on intent to deceive. I'm not qualified to judge this matter.
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  dedpoet

  Who was truer at the time, from Jesus' perspective?

  That's an impossible question for anyone alive now to answer, as you well knew when you asked it.

  However most of, the "millions" then living (in 1920) who were never going to die, according to J F Rutherford, are mostly dead now. JFR made a false prophecy Fred, there is no other way to describe it, and thousands believed him at the time and changed their circumstances to proclaim his message. God, as you also know, has little time or respect for false prophets, and I fail to see how he, in conjunction with Jesus, would have chosen a religion led by JF Rutherford, who had proved to be a false prophet, to represent him on earth.

  dedpoet
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  zack

  Fred:

  You're free to believe as wish. But remember, many who have been certain of the rightness of their beliefs killed God's chosen ones thinking and believing it was God's will.

  Saul of Tarsus was such a man, who believed that through works of law rightouesness was imputed. It was only later in his life and after an intervention by Christ that

  he had to admit that love and mercy were the fulfillment of law, the underlying basis of law, and primacy over law.