How did I conclude it was not the 'truth'? (page 4)

jgnat

Interesting. If Satan were the original failure, why isn't his downfall listed in Genesis 3? According to the Genesis account, all of God's creation up to Adam's error was "good". http://www.gotquestions.org/Satan-fall.html

Fred E Hathaway

to bebu:

Headship is an important principle, after all. Even with freedom of choice, we are urged in the Bible not to stumble others. A global view, which JWs' publications provide, allows us to understand the meaning of events and customs in a Scripturally-balanced way.

Our brains are very much needed, especially when our faith and beliefs is questioned or under attack. There are ways to answer the fool, and ways to not answer the fool. It takes wisdom to understand which action or process to take.

I find that how I worship is still a matter of choice. I have both the spiritual and the fleshly ways at hand, from my own personal experience. The spiritual is the wise way, the fleshly is not.

dedpoet

Fred

Jehovah has appointed Jesus Christ, who has appointed the Faithful and Discreet Slave, which has appointed its Governing Body, which has appointed the Overseers worldwide, who have approved the Congregations' actions.

You only have the watchtower's say so on that Fred, it doesn't make it true. The watchtower claimed the appointment that Jesus talked about for themselves at a time when they were publishing books like the Finished Mystery, which was their main teaching book at the time, and made some pretty ludicrous and obviously untrue claims as quoted here
http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/1_600_furlongs.html
http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/leviathan.html
and Millions Now Living Will Never Die, in which Joe Rutherford claimed that the scriptures pointed to 1925 as being the date of Armageddon, obviously a false prophecy by the watchtower society, and you know how Jehovah views false prophets (Deut 18:20-22).

Do you really think that Jesus, if he did return then, and again we only have the watchtower's say so on that, would appoint a group of men who were dealing out such rubbish to be his earthly representatives? I can't see it, somehow.

dedpoet

Fred E Hathaway

to dedpoet: It would have been interesting to live in those times. There sure has been a lot of refinement over the years. I am really glad that I was there when JWs studied their publication entitled Jehovah's Witnesses — Proclaimers of God's Kingdom. The Appendices in the All Scripture Is Inspired and Beneficial book have also been very faith-strengthening. Even the What Does the Bible Really Teach? book helped me to retrace which steps I'd skipped before baptism, which had hindered in the progress I could have otherwise made. Keeping in step allowed me to be prepared for each bit of new understanding, including the need for me to point out to the elders in my Congregation that my baptism shouldn't have been rushed the way it was. Growing comes with pains and turmoil, but the added perspective and strength are certainly worth it, considering the challenges of the adult world, whether physically or spiritually.

AK - Jeff

Fred - you have been well schooled, no doubt, to accept every tid-bit that falls from the Brooklyn ink wells. I was too, for a real long time.

I have asked every jw-apologist this simple query - and not a one of them could answer it straight up - will you?

Please prove, using no assertions, nor pointing to any invisible and unprovable events, that the Watchtower Society was selected by Christ in or around 1919, to reprepresent the Faithful and Discreet Slave.

Nothing else matters does it? If you can't prove that, if it is just one religion saying that it was appointed when others were not, then doctrine doesn't matter, claims of superior morality don't count, and insistence that 'new light' keeps the religion on track is of no value.

Incidently, the Mormons make a somewhat similar claim [though slightly different in it's nature], and they have exceeded Jw growth, they have high moral teachings and integrated congregations, and claim to have Jesus' extra 'new light' in the form of The Book of Mormom. You would deny all day long that they are God's people, because you expect them to lie as bird-food on the ground very soon. Yet the essential elements of 'Divine selection' are very similar.

I shall not await your response. When I asked Def'd for similar [a previous apologist to this site] he danced around it, then ignored it on his way back to worship his Watchtower.

Jeff

Fred E Hathaway

to AK - Jeff

Please prove, using no assertions, nor pointing to any invisible and unprovable events, that the Watchtower Society was selected by Christ in or around 1919, to represent the Faithful and Discreet Slave.

I believe there to be a technical error in the statement you just provided. I believe that Jesus Christ choose the FDS and the FDS selected the GB from amongst themselves. The various legal instruments (including what you call the Watchtower Society, though there are in fact several legal entities around the world with Watchtower Society or Watch Tower Society in their names) are used by the FDS and its GB to accomplish the assignments given to them.

jgnat

Fred, the origins of the Governing Body as you described are a figment of your own religious imaginings. You are a competent researcher. Check out the origins for yourself. The FDS never had any say in it's own governance. Ever.

Fred E Hathaway

to jgnat: This is refuted in the day's text and comments for 24 March 2007, which quotes Matt.24:45, with the following commentary: "One of the means Jesus uses to lead us today is the holy spirit, which Jehovah God has authorized his Son to employ. (Matt.28:18) Today's text points to another means by which Christ leads the congregation. The "master" is Jesus Christ. The "slave" is the group of anointed Christians on earth. This slave class is entrusted with caring for Jesus' earthly interests and with providing timely spiritual food. A small group of qualified overseers from among the composite "faithful and discreet slave" form the Governing Body. They direct the worldwide Kingdom-preaching work and the supplying of spiritual nourishment at the right time. Christ thus leads the congregation by means of the spirit-anointed "faithful and discreet slave" and its Governing Body. [taken from the Watchtower of 15 Sep 2005, 2nd study article, paragraphs 7-9]."

jgnat

Pure blubber, Fred. I didn't ask you to get religious confirmation. I asked you to use your research skills to confirm if the GB's origins are truly as they describe them in their literature. For instance, how was the current GB selected? Is there a private poll conducted of all surviving slaves?

Come on, I know you can do it!

Fred E Hathaway

It's an internal process that I've never been a part of. It's like how Cabinet portfolios are handed out. It's not my department. There are oaths of secrecy as well, which I wouldn't be privy to divulge, even if I did know.

How did I conclude it was not the 'truth'?

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