How did I conclude it was not the 'truth'? (page 3)

Fred E Hathaway

Independent thinking refers to thinking that does not at least attempt to take Jehovah's personality, thoughts, and ways into account.

jgnat

I wonder why the society actively discourages independent thinking, hmm?

The way I see it, God created in us marvellous brains to sort things out for ourselves. His greatest delight is when our minds and hearts lead us to Him.

The Watchtower model, on the other hand, believes that our minds ultimately fail, and we should leave all thinking up to our perfect and infallible Creator. If we are such failures, does that not also make our creator a failure as well?

iamfreenow

Fred E. Hathaway wrote

Independent thinking refers to thinking that does not at least attempt to take Jehovah's personality, thoughts, and ways into account.

Not true, in a Watchtower context anyway,

The Watchtower have set themselves up as the only channel through which the Bible can be understood. (To be fair, most cults do exactly the same). The following quotes from Watchtower publications illustrate this

Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book." The Watchtower; July 1, 1973, pp. 402.

The Watchtower magazine is the means of God's communication
Quote: "It should be expected that the Lord would have a means of communication to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called The Watchtower is used for that purpose." (1939 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, p. 85.)

Where exactly did God show this? Probably in the Watchtower itself!

Cannot understand the Bible outside of watchtower organization
Quote: "We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the ‘faithful and discreet slave' organization." (The Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1981.)

Again, no one can understand the bible without the Watchtower to tell them what it means

Those who think apart from the Watchtower's guidance are like Satan
Quote: "From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude...They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such ‘Bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago..." The Watchtower, August 15, 1981.

So if you think independently of the Watchtower interpretation of scripture, you are like Satan. Is this mind control? It seems so to me.

"We cannot claim to love God, yet deny his word and channel of communication." The Watchtower, October 1, 1967, p. 591.

So if you love God, you will be in the Watchtower Organisation. To not be in the Watchtower is to reject God, according to the Watchtower.

All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave. The Watchtower; 10/1/1994; p. 8.

What the Watchtower is saying here is that God's word can only be understood through their teachings. Therefore, one must be in submission to them, and any attempt to understand the bible by those outside the organisation will fail.

These quotes should be sufficient to show that the Watchtower seeks to control the thinking of its' members, and discourages any form of independent thought, tactics typical of any high-control cult.

Marion

Brother Apostate

nvrgnbk,

"I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question."

Very succint way to state one of the major reasons I concluded "it" was not the truth. Thanks.

Fred,

Independent thinking refers to thinking that does not at least attempt to take Jehovah's personality, thoughts, and ways into account. What do you think the Genesis account means when God says "let us make man in our image", huh? Independent thinking means no such thing, as we are inherently made in his image. Aren't you really afraid of not taking the "governing body's" personality, thoughts, and ways into account? jgnat, Great response to your friend. Here's to hoping your friend sees the real light and puts God before teachings of men. BA- Truly happy to use my free will to obey God rather than men.

AK - Jeff

Perhaps the leading expert on mind control as it pertains to religious cults, Steve Hassan, makes this observation, which applies to the matter of 'independent thinking' quite well.

Under the subheading 'Thought Control' on page 61 of his volume entitled 'Combatting Cult Mind Control' he states;

Thought control, the second major component of mind control, includes indoctrinating members so thoroughly that they internalize the group doctrine, incorporate a new language system, and use thought-stopping techniques to keep their mind "centered". In order to be a good member, a person must learn to manipulate his own thought processes.

In totalistic cults, the ideology is internalized as "the truth", the only "map" of reality. The doctrine not only serves to filter incoming information but also regulates how the information can be thought about. Usually the doctrine is absolutist, dividing everything into 'black versus white', 'us versus them'. All that is good is embodied in the leader and the group. All that is bad is on the outside. The more totalistic groups claim that their doctrine is scientifically proven. The doctrine claims to answer all questions to all problems and situations. A member need not think for himself because the doctrine does the thinking for him.

A destructive cult typically has it's own 'loaded language' of words and expressions. Since language provides the symbols we use for thinking, controlling certain words helps to control thoughts. Many groups condense complex situations, label them, and thereby reduce them to cult cliches. This label, which is how the loaded language is verbally expressed, governs how one thinks in any situation.

This explains the diverse understanding in this thread as to the matter of 'independent thought' IMO. In the loaded language of the Watchtower, 'independent thinking' is dangerous, almost treasonous against God and all that is good. The mental reaction is to use it as a 'thought stopping' word, resulting in a measure of defense against attack by Satan. A negative trait that should be suppressed before one steps outside of the Theocracy. For those who have left this group, and have dropped the loaded language from his/her thinking, 'independent thinking' does not take on that connotation in any respect. Rather, it represents freedom to explore and use the God given minds we have.

Hence any discussion of 'independent thinking' and it's good/bad consequences needs to framed in this understanding of divergence. I doubt that Fred E. Hathaway , at this point can garner the same opines of this distinction as those members of the forum who have neither been captive to these conceptual mis-realities, or who have left them in the past. I know that it was garbled in my thinking for months after exit from the organization.

I hope this pertains.

Jeff

bebu

Good thread! I enjoyed your observations, jgnat.

The Watchtower model, on the other hand, believes that our minds ultimately fail, and we should leave all thinking up to our perfect and infallible Creator.

Actually, the WT model teaches that we should leave all thinking up tothem. Even though (they admit) they are not perfect nor inspired. And I don't think that God gave us brains so that we could stick them on a shelf (or bury them in the ground like the servant buried the talent). We are admonished to be clever and discerning, and to pursue wisdom and knowledge:

PR 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter;to search out a matter is the glory of kings.

I have found that worship is an automatic response of the thinking/learning (and meditation) process.

bebu

Fred E Hathaway

It's Satan who's the Original Failure. That's the lesson from Genesis, chapter 3.

Fred E Hathaway

to iamfreenow:

I still say that "Independent thinking refers to thinking that does not at least attempt to take Jehovah's personality, thoughts, and ways into account." This is because Jehovah has appointed Jesus Christ, who has appointed the Faithful and Discreet Slave, which has appointed its Governing Body, which has appointed the Overseers worldwide, who have approved the Congregations' actions. All reflect Jehovah's ways within the limitations inherent within each rank below Jehovah God. Jehovah, after all, is without equal, and exacts exclusive devotion within the capabilities of each.

Fred E Hathaway

My comments to jgnat and iamfreenow are just above.

Fred E Hathaway

to AK - Jeff:

I believe in the freedom of choice and consequences more than ever. My life is healthier all the way round as a result.

How did I conclude it was not the 'truth'?

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