Do you agree that, if there are errors in the bible, then it's all wrong? (page 6)

Abandoned

Do we love the priest who molests little boys? Should we be patient and kind with serial killers and rapists? What would love possibly mean if it could be expressed about such vermin?

Well you shouldn't love what they're doing. Still, hating him isn't going to do any good. Will the young kids who were molested regain their innocence if we hate enough? No. We can take this opportunity to figure out what went wrong to prevent it in the future. We can put this guy behind bars where he can't do this again. But hating him is a waste of time. It clouds your reason. Instead of making sound decisions, you'll make ones just out of a desire for revenge and may end up cutting off your nose to spite your face (sorry about the cliche).

Anyway, I agree that there are a lot of screwed up things in the universe, but hating them doesn't help. I hated god for a long time. He's still god (if he exists) and I'm still me. In fact, my hating him didn't change a single thing in the entire universe other than the amount of energy I had available to do the things I wanted to do. So, I didn't hurt him. I didn't hurt you. I did hurt myself or at least limit myself.

Terry

Will the young kids who were molested regain their innocence if we hate enough? No. We can take this opportunity to figure out what went wrong to prevent it in the future. We can put this guy behind bars where he can't do this again. But hating him is a waste of time.

The time has come, the Walrus said, to speak of many things......

Let us get down to the nasty business of defining what we mean when we use the word HATE and see if, as you suggest, it is a waste of time.

First, we have an exercise to perform.

Let us look at Proverbs 6:16--19.

NASB: There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: (NASB ©1995)
GWT: There are six things that the LORD hates, even seven that are disgusting to him: (GOD'S WORD®)
KJV: These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
ASV: There are six things which Jehovah hateth; Yea, seven which are an abomination unto him:
BBE: Six things are hated by the Lord; seven things are disgusting to him:
DBY: These six things doth Jehovah hate, yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
JPS: There are six things which the LORD hateth, yea, seven which are an abomination unto Him:
WBS: These six things doth the LORD hate: yes, seven are an abomination to him:
WEB: There are six things which Yahweh hates; yes, seven which are an abomination to him:
YLT: These six hath Jehovah hated, Yea, seven are abominations to His soul.

Clearly, regardless of translation, we have God clearly experiencing HATE.

Hate is meaningless (like LOVE) without an object.

What are the objects of God's HATE?

(16) There are six things that Jehovah does hate; yes, seven are things detestable to his soul: (17) lofty eyes, a false tongue, and hands that are shedding innocent blood, (18) a heart fabricating hurtful schemes, feet that are in a hurry to run to badness, (19) a false witness that launches forth lies, and anyone sending forth contentions among brothers.

1.Lofty eyes

2.False tongue

3.Hands shedding innocent blood

4.Heart fabricating hurtful schemes

5.Feet in a hurry to run to badness

6.False witness

7.Sending forth contentions among brothers

Anyway, I agree that there are a lot of screwed up things in the universe, but hating them doesn't help.

I don't think the idea behind this scripture is to HELP. It is meant to reveal the standard God maintains. That standard would be God's VALUE SYSTEM.

I personally could come up with better ones to hate than the above. However, we'll just leave it at those 7.

Each of us fails morally if we cannot identify behaviors, attitude and mindsets which are so utterly deplorable and devoid of benefit that we must oppose them with every fiber of our being. This means we HATE them.

Dodging this is just silly.

You are reacting to a buzzword when you cringe from embracing HATE as a concept worth possessing.

The sort of HATE we must avoid is UNJUST hatred.

Justice is getting/giving what is deserved and earned. Bad hate is the opposite of Justice. This is what we must avoid.

AuldSoul

Terry,

If I love a dog I owned since she was a just-weaned puppy and she becomes so ill that she is in constant pain, is it love to keep her alive?

What if she becomes rabid and becomes a great enough threat to others that, despite my love for her, she must be put down for the good of the many?

Does that necessity remove the love? No.

Plug that into your equation about humans who become dangerous to others and you will find that tolerance does not mean acceptance and intolerance does not always equate to a lack of love.

Love a paedophile? Sure. Condone a paedophile's actions? Never. Allow a paedophile to experience negative consequences for actions? Sure. And none of these is inconsistent with the others.

I think your quest for objectivity is cute. Unreasonable and doomed to end in frustrated failure, but cute.

—AuldSoul

TopHat

Lofty Eyes? What does that mean? Eyes on top of your head?

Abandoned

Terry, I don't consider the bible a valid reference so referring to it is wasting both of our time. It appears that we don't have as big of disagreement anyway, though, because you are talking about taking productive steps. I agree with that. Trying to right a wrong is a positive use of your time and energy. Fixing something that is broken makes sense. Revenge doesn't. Revenge is based on hatred and just leads to more conflict. Fixing something that is wrong is based on discipline and is positive.

Edit: LOL! I forgot the original purpose of this thread. Sorry to dog you about the bible since I wandered in here wilfully. For the record though, I don't consider it an authority on anything.

Borgia

Brother apostate: Turning the other cheek: You may comfort yourself by the idear that a person hih above looks upon you favourably if you do so. However,looking at the world as it is, this teachings is not very ......usefull. Compare to the actions of Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Turkey on the Armenians, Sebs on the Bosnians, and of course we could nae some contemporaries. Even ones we encounter in our own lives. Although you may walk away from a single insult, it is even harder to do so if your wife gets molestated, or your kids being threatened by a molester. Although you may act in a civilised way if handling the admin in an accident, you will most likely act differently when a thief enters your house.

@ general: Ok, Embracing the big concept of loving thy neigbour as yourself. On a small scale that may be possible. The way I treat people in my personal environment gives them a good or a bad feeling. Response: good or bad. So, yes, I see advantage in that. However, this concept does not prevent people like Amahdinejad to pursue a dangerous course. When we apply this conept to the greater scheme of things it becomes a laughable perogative, a joke.

You may love your neighbour, the molestor, as much as you want, in the end you do not wish to be confronted with him. You either wish the molester dead, behind bars for a lifetime and /or even castrated. Hence the databases with names and addresses of known molesters.

The fact of the matter remains: looking for guidance with people who could not even provide the answer on the existence of the lightbulbs in the night sky, do not by default have the answer in all our ethical issues. They may provide some interesting food for thought, but hardly an authoritive answer.

The bible is erronous. so what? Does that make it worse than say, Warran buffets autobiography? It is time to value it as it should be: The contemporaries of the ones who wrote it, were the ones least familiar with it....... Hence the need of canonicity....

Cheers

Borgia

SilverNyte

Yes, and so, according to the teachings of 'A Course in Miracles,' your fear of letting go of that book is perhaps something you should look into.

Silver

SilverNyte

sammielee24

In other words, if you can find a few errors in the bible, will you throw away the whole notion of the bible being "inspired by God"

I guess first off you would have to believe that the book WAS inspired. In reality though - if I hold up a book of fairy tales in my one hand and in the other, I hold up a bible - which should I believe in and why? Why should one person believe in one book and claim it to be the truth, yet another group of people believe in their book and it's the truth and yet another group of people believe in their book and it's the truth? What is the truth? Who determines? A person might believe that their God in their bible is the right God, but that same belief is held fast the world over by others who believe their God is the right one. It all boils down to what faith you choose to believe in doesn't it? If you don't see the bible as inspired, then I suppose the errors that you find, wouldn't be errors - only part of the story.

As for right and wrong. What if there were no bible? What if all we had were a set of laws to follow and instead of a promise of glory in the next life - our glory was in doing good in this life? sammieswife.

Do you agree that, if there are errors in the bible, then it's all wrong?

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