by greendawn 37 Replies latest watchtower scandals
Onacruse, I know you are playing devil's advocate when you said this...
greendawn:
I know the GB (and previously the WTS presidents) are power lusting pigsAnd your evidence is?
My answer is this... James 2:24 (NWT) "YOU will see that a man is to be declared righteous by works, and not by faith alone." This discussion board is full of injustices committed by the GB who [by works] prove they care nothing for their followers, only their own power do they care for.
Onacruse it's good to try and see the arguments for the other side, but it's the way the GB behaves towards the fellow "anointed" that they also call fellow FDS members that gives away their greed for power, they obviously want all power and authority in their hands and no one else's. They would rather have non anointed carrying out the functions of the FDS as long as they are in their immediate circle. As for Franz being a humble man back in the 1970's he did all he could to prevent the GB (not that they are any better) from receiving any power because he hoped to succeed Knorr, then the president held all power. We all know that the real FDS is the GB (before them the president/vice president) and their non anointed associates and not the 8 000 or so "anointed" who have always been in fact non entities in the WTS.
jayhawk and greendawn, thank you for taking my observations in the way I intended.
Insofar as the "ad hominem" aspect of what I've posted, I'd like to share a bit of my experiences with these men, individually, at least insofar as it reflects on the "kind of people" that I perceived them to be.
One of my jobs, as a graveyard Bethelite, was to run the night-watchman routine, which took me through every floor of every one of the "Homes." Every time I did that route, one of my clock-stations was just outside of Fred's room, and every time, even though it was between 12 a.m. and 6 a.m., I'd see the light on (under his door), and hear books being tossed about on a table. I almost, once, had the courage to knock on his door and say hello. But (for what such personal memories are worth), I had the distinct felling that he was a man on a mission, so I just marched on to the next station.
And then there were the steam-room episodes, where Fred would blast the temp up to 220 degrees, and when the "slackers" LOL had faded away, he would discuss with us various Greek words, or the daily text. I didn't last but through a couple of such...I like Oregon, not Arizona! LOL
And then, when the "new elder arrangement" was about to be rolled out, Fred, at the Bethel breakfast table, would call on certain "servants" (over at the guest table), and refer to them as "elders." We were all wondering, "what the heck is Fred saying? That guy is a "servant," not an "elder!" But, idealogue that he was, as far as he was concerned, "truth was truth," and he sat there in his no-tie Pendelton shirt and spoke as if this "elder" thing was common knowledge.
And then there was a discussion I had with George Gangas, in the Bethel dinner-room, where he went off about "motion pictures of the mind," (a phrase which, I believe, has been repeated more than once in the Watchtower). I walked away feeling like I'd been in the presence of a truly sincere and insightful man.
Now, of course, my feelings about these men means nothing, other than that I was over-awed even to be in their presence. However, to this day I can't say that I sensed any dishonesty in them: they seemed to be genuine.
What they might really have been, as persons, as human beings, the "hidden being," I can't say. Thus my objection to ad hominem. However, as you both point out, what they did, in terms of policy, either individually or collectively, does serve as an external measure of their character...but, even then, in the course of my conversations with other JWs, it takes a fair bit more than "can't you see between the lines?" Therefore, my query: "What's the evidence?"
I still find it hard to believe they were or are truly genuine since so much of their ideology and style of administration is so rotten they must surely be aware of it, but they somehow managed to erase it from their minds and behave as if nothing is wrong. They are the classic examples of the hypocrite. The evidence of their greed for power is their behaviour: the mouth speaks from the excess of the heart. As stated above they ruined many marriages and families through the shunning policy and have been caught lying (doctrinally) on numerous occasions.
I do think the point of the matter is that if one of the "anointed" wanted a position of overseer they have to step up and tell the headquarters . It is voluntary after all , in the bible it states if a man reaches out for the office of overseer he is desirous of a fine work . 1 Tim 3:1 then there is a list of requirements . So you could be denied the position if you don't meet those requirements .
greendawn:
I still find it hard to believe they were or are truly genuine since so much of their ideology and style of administration is so rotten they must surely be aware of it,
I can't help but think back to what Ray Franz related in CoC...without quoting (my copy is in someone else's hands...so much for loaning out books LOL), I have a gestaltic memory that he was, as a representative member of that "elite" body, going through the angst, the same 'self-awareness-of-hypocrisy' that you mention. However, what was his most immediate solution? To have private studies with a selected group of Bethelites...as if that would solve the problem?? Well, for the time being, it did seem to solve his problem--and I essentially did the same thing: retreat to the safest position.
but they somehow managed to erase it from their minds and behave as if nothing is wrong.
No, I don't think anyone who salvages a vestige of their conscience can ever erase something like that from their mind. It comes backs to eat at you, haunt you, knaw away at your bones...man, do I remember that pain.
They are the classic examples of the hypocrite.
I submit that we are all hypocrites, to one degree or another (think of the basic meaning of the word).
The evidence of their greed for power is their behaviour: the mouth speaks from the excess of the heart.
So says the Bible: for myself, frequently the excesses of my heart are among the very last things that I speak from my mouth. Craig
I haven't been much around GB members except for their occasional (and unremarkable) visits to the French Branch.
But from the local leaders I knew -- and from my own experience -- I was completely convinced by Ray Franz's description of the GB members, and especially Uncle Freddy, as a strange (but how human) mix of lucid cynicism and sincere belief/delusion about "God's organisation" and their own "mission". The psychology of any human being is more complex than the resolve of any cartoon villain. Or hero for that matter.
Heathen: It may be as you said that anyone (male) can become an overseer straight from R&F, I thought overseers are drawn from the ranks of the elders. However the point is that the GB members and the presidents before them have always been taking decisions without ever consulting their thousands of fellow FDS members. If these decisions were wrong as they often were that's their own tough s--t, no doubt one or other "anointed" would have pointed that out had they been given the chance.
Now if an "anointed" objects to some of these decisions he will be lucky to remain a JW let alone an overseer. It means being an overeer is pointless to many as they would have to sit in the GB mould to get into the "correct" shape, a shape they may not approve of. The point is they have been hurled away from any doctrinal or administrative authority.
Onacruse: Yes we are all actors from time to time (in ancient Greek hypocrisy was the art of acting in the theatre) but the GB are hypocrites of very high calibre since hundreds of thousands of lives got ruined through their opportunistic pretenses.
Narkissos: It is indeed the belief/delusion mix that describes their attitude best.
