Need some education on THEOLOGY? Start here! Evolutionists take note! (page 8)

Deputy Dog

Nark

Your wording was certainly more cautious than Perry's, but you did jump on his boat, implying that the notion of depravity as he used it first was being misconstrued by "unbelieving" posters, instead of pointing out that the actual Calvinistic notion was totally irrelevant to the topic, i.e., whether atheism (not to mention "evolutionism"!) is practically or epistemologically dangerous -- implying, more dangerous than the theistic stance.

Did you read my last comment to Perry

You also contributed a bit to the confusion of "depravity" with the psychological sense of guilt or moral inadequacy (cf. your response to funkyderek for instance).

That was not my intent. The intellect is not the only factor, I believe there is a spiritual component (special grace) working here as well. Most will not accept depravity, no matter how it is defined.

I don't know if LT would agree.

Deputy Dog

ATJ

JW's still have the advantage in that everyone is expected to preach. Evangelicals are decidedly different, and Mormons only send a select few out in the public.

I don't think I agree, nor do I find JWs to be very good listeners.

Narkissos

DD,

Are you referring to this?

You may win a few more people by stating the same thing this way.
In our depraved state, we have only two options. (1) we can create an illusion of righteousness and justify ourselves even though we continue to commit crimes against our neighbors and against God, (even if they seem to get less as we age). If we do this God is justified in punishing us the same way we already admitted we would punish other "uncivilized people". How could we complain if God judged us by our own standards?

It struck me as a formal, diplomatic, rhetorical, strategical suggestion (I'll let you pick up the best adjective), which didn't question the validity of the argument itself.

Would you agree with me that, in the Calvinistic perspective, the common depravity of mankind is irrelevant to the question whether atheism is a more dangerous course than theism in the realm of common grace, that is, every practical field besides the issue of eternal salvation?

Most will not accept depravity, no matter how it is defined.

Sure, why should they?

hillary_step

Dan,

Thanks Hillary Step, I feel much better now!

It could be worse, you might be young and have a lot longer to think about your inevitable death than an older person such as myself. I will be there soon enough.

Wee on my tombstone if you wish, but make sure that I did not set up a 400 volt arcing current as a trap.

HS

Deputy Dog

Nark

Would you agree with me that, in the Calvinistic perspective, the common depravity of mankind is irrelevant to the question whether atheism is a more dangerous course than theism in the realm of common grace, that is, every practical field besides the issue of eternal salvation?

I think that may have been Perrys point, the other option he offered was

(2) You could have a "come to Jesus" moment right here on JWD. I'd be honored to be your witness. You would "pass over from death to life". You would never have to face the embarrassment of a trial where you try to pit your righteous assertions against the Infinite Mind who knows everything about you. "There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus"

AK - Jeff

LT - that ccel site is amazing. I have all the early church father's writings in my pdf files now, and beginning to read them. Great site.

Jeff

Deputy Dog

AK Jeff

LT - that ccel site is amazing. I have all the early church father's writings in my pdf files now, and beginning to read them. Great site.

Did you know that those early church father's writings are available from http://www.e-sword.net/ and they are searchable?

Narkissos

DD,

Here's how the notion was first (I think) introduced:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/128978/2288783/post.ashx#2288783

LittleToe

In that post (which I recall thinking was strangely reminiscent of the video "Hell's Best Kept Secret", when first I read it) Perry places the religionist in no better a position than the atheist. Further he specifically uses the term "total depravity", in the midsts of a lengthy semi-theological diatribe about the human race (rather than specifically the atheist). Is it any wonder I came to the conclusions I arrived at?

kid-A

"We all end up in some dismal cemetry with drunken kids urinating on our tombstones anyway. The atheist next to the fundamentalist, the good with the bad and ugly"

Nope! Not me! I've reserved a 10th floor crypyt in a high-rise mausoleum for beautiful atheists......

Need some education on THEOLOGY? Start here! Evolutionists take note!

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