Need some education on THEOLOGY? Start here! Evolutionists take note!

by LittleToe 92 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Doug:

    You are one of my favorite people and you know that.

    Actually I didn't. I'm honoured!

    The whole overwhelming evidence and that already proven theory might have been otherwise doomed!

    Gawd forbid that I unsettle the entire foundation of the universe by wild assertions

    Dan:

    I thought it might contain something that would really challenge me, really fire me up, get me thinking. But then it concluded with such a tepid argument. I was expecting something better I guess.

    Well, lets se if we can't remedy that here, then

    First lets take our conclusion one more step before backtracking, ergo: just as language isn't real, neither is thought itself, being the interpretation of a mass of firing neurons, interpreted by... a mass of firing neurons

    That being the case thought and language is actually all we have. Even language itself is developed along the lines of evolving frameworks of understanding; assumptions; belief; and interpretation. Hence the framework to which we adhere has a very direct affect on the way we interpret the information that overloads our senses.

    Generally speaking the human animal will not intentionally attempt to construct an illogical interpretation of events. Our minds seek patterns (even where there are none) and stability to make sense of the world around us, by imprinting an internal map.

    The scientific method has evolved to the point where for most things it is the best logic model to allow us to categorise the "what" and the "how" of things. It struggles to wrangle with some of the "why"s, however, and the mind itself is a bastion that it has yet to full storm (though it is having some success).

    It is quite within the bounds of the scientific method to take an assumption such as a "first cause" when constructing a hypothesis as long as the assumption is stated. This is the beginning point of every objective enquiry, and at the very least amounts to a "variable/constant x" or "god of the gaps". As such theology is a well respected philosophical science.

    Now if the original assumption should prove incorrect then the experiment is still not proved flawed, rather then null hypothesis is shown statistically viable. Of course all the debating that rested on the discounting of the null hypothesis is then rendered so much mental masturbation, but that's the risk that every philosopher has taken. We don't berate them for it, but rather learn from their lessons, and build upon their shoulders.

    Thus language and frameworks of thought continue to evolve and develop.

    What is the net result of using "God" as a prior assumption, aside being a handy mathematical device? For that I have to further delve into the philosophical, or maybe into the psychosomatic. Taking an ethical risk analysis of it, does it benefit or harm (and here I refer to the base assumption, not the towering edifices that have been built upon it)? I would suggest that at the very least it has provided "comfort" for the internal maps of most every homo sapien sapien down through the ages. It is only being contested in our modern age, and as yet has not been successfully replaced by so effective an assumption.

    So far this is all very philosophical, and I haven't even dipped into whether or not such a "Person" actually exists or cares. Its meant as discussion, though, and in that context I offer these few rambling thoughts.

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan

    You've got me thinking now.

    *sigh*

    If there's anything that I've learned from my 5 years of participating on this forum, it's that there's a vast world of philosophy, theology, etc. out there that I was totally unaware of as a dub, and it really kills me that I'm such a babe in the woods when it comes to discussing these things.

    I'm trying though, lol

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Yeah but, gawd, doncha just love it!!!!

    Its made all the better by being able to enjoy it with fellow travellers on the road

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Ross,

    Interesting development.

    I would suggest that at the very least it has provided "comfort" for the internal maps of most every homo sapien sapien down through the ages. It is only being contested in our modern age, and as yet has not been successfully replaced by so effective an assumption.

    That's where I disagree. What prevents "God" to work as a mathematical unknown, "x," is that it has a definition depending on its particular cultural history. Which ain't exactly as you tell it

    Unless you ethnocentrically decide to identify the "God" of the monotheistic society where you happened to be born with the object(s) of everything loosely called "religion" in history (and prehistory) -- ancestor worship, animism, shamanism, polytheism, etc. -- it has affected a small portion of mankind over the ages, in many diverging forms additionally. So your "x-God" hides another assumption, namely that the culture you were born in had it right over against the rest of mankind (prior to, outside of, and after the spatio-temporal realm of influence of monotheism). With this second assumption beneath the first one it doesn't sound so much like a solid basis (were it only axiomatic) for a "well-respected philosophical science," does it?

    May be it's the reason why it's called theology, not philosophy...

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Dan,

    If there's anything that I've learned from my 5 years of participating on this forum, it's that there's a vast world of philosophy, theology, etc. out there that I was totally unaware of as a dub, and it really kills me that I'm such a babe in the woods when it comes to discussing these things.

    If there is anything that I have learned in my 500 years of life, is that none of it matters much anyway.

    We all end up in some dismal cemetry with drunken kids urinating on our tombstones anyway. The atheist next to the fundamentalist, the good with the bad and ugly, and Rod Stewart with Caruso.

    HS

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Didier:ROFL - who said I was sticking to a strictly Christo-centric/monotheistic definition?

    When you strip it back to a common denominator (another mathematical reference) I don't think I'm too far from the beaten track with my comments. I do totally accept what you say about it being a loaded definition, though.

    I also agree with your comments about cultural bias. I've commented before that I believe that the way the Western mind has evolved makes the Christian framework easier to understand (mostly because the two are intertwined, as a symbiotic evolution); in contrast to the Oriental mind, for example.

    Over the last few years I've had a parallel quest to strip away such accoutrements, as best I'm able, and see what is left. The alternative is exactly as you suggest - too many layers of assumption. I guess that what I've been provoked to present here is some of the fruit of that endeavor, but it needs a good polish, so please feel entirely free to fire away

    Hillary:

    Rod Stewart with Caruso

    OMG, tell me it isn't possible - oh cruel world!!!

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan

    Thanks Hillary Step, I feel much better now!

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff
    I would also point out that JW are unique as a religous movement, because their activities necesarrily put them in contact with people of different faiths, and many, myself included, did take the time to allow people to express their own ideas about god and what their own religion means to them.

    Deputy Dog asked: What makes you any different than lets say Mormons or Evangelicals for example?

    I didn't say I was! You misunderstood the paragraph. I wasn't excluding anyone at all. Mormons and Evangelicals.. I was merely pointing out that JW activities do put themselves in position to learn about the faith and beliefs of others. Good for the Mormons and Evangelicals for their efforts at getting out in the religous community. JW's still have the advantage in that everyone is expected to preach. Evangelicals are decidedly different, and Mormons only send a select few out in the public. But that wasn't the point of the paragraph. I will allow for anyone to know more then I on any given subject, given the possibility of a discussion such as this where the merits of our ideas can be displayed.

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    hillary,

    Very dour observation here:

    ; We all end up in some dismal cemetry with drunken kids urinating on our tombstones anyway. The atheist next to the fundamentalist, the good with the bad and ugly, and Rod Stewart with Caruso.

    This may be true for those who end up in a cemetry, but for those elitists like me who might just end up in a "cemetery" we still get all the perks and do get the fools messing with our graves, too. Of course, ALL burial sites are "dismal". Ever meet a "friendly" burial site? I never did. Burial sites don't tend to be on the friendly side in my experience.

    That being the case, it is perfectly ok with me if people relieve themselves on or near where I might be buried someday. Rain is a good thing. Don't miss. My head will be pointed North. Or South. I won't care at that point.

    Farkel

  • bernadette
    bernadette

    Good discussion LT

    Wow HS - am beginning to see you as our resident, intellectual eccentric - no offence meant. I think every board needs one or two

    bernadette

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit