Need some education on THEOLOGY? Start here! Evolutionists take note!

by LittleToe 92 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Navigator

  Interesting Links! If I wade through all that material, will I receive a degree in Theology from the University of Ross? HeHe!
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  PrimateDave

  Okay, so I'm an "Evolutionist". I have questions.
  
  Have the articles in those links been peer reviewed? Or, do they just represent the work of fringe researchers?
  
  I noticed that they mentioned some disease called "sin" that seems to be either inherited and/or contagious. Have the Doctors of Theology come up with an antidote for this disease? Will it be available over-the-counter or by prescription only? Will my medical plan cover this kind of medication?
  
  One of the references cited mentions a person named Eve. According to your researchers, she only lived some 6000 years ago. When I consulted the Wikipedia, I found this information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
  According to that article, she lived some 140,000 years ago. Why the discrepancy?
  
  Finally, I noticed that the Theologists have been attempting to get this god thing to appear for quite some time. Still, so far their laboratory experiments have failed to produce results. My question is: If they can't even get god to appear in a controlled laboratory setting, how can they possibly expect it to be a naturally occurring phenomenon?
  
  Dave (tongue in cheek)
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  kid-A

  "It has been my experience that because folks have been part of one religion (i.e. JWs) they often have the misguided belief that they are experts in theology or the Christian faith."

  I certainly would not consider myself an "expert" in theology, and to my knowledge there is not a single person on this board that could make such a claim. Perhaps someone with a Doctorate in Divinity would pass muster, but beyond that, NOBODY here is qualified as an "expert" in theology, christian or otherwise. Its immaterial in any case since as I stated previously, this is a debate between supporters of a specific "pre-christian" creation myth, and those promoting a scientific approach to human origins.

  I would also add, no matter how whacked out I consider the JWs, they are still a sect of Christianity and share many, many beliefs, attitudes and social policies with other Christian fundamentalist sects, including the 7th Day Adventists, Baptists, Mormons, even some Pentecostal movements, including but not limited to: homophobia, an anti-science agenda, anti-abortion, right-wing political leanings, a belief that "they alone" have the "truth", and the list goes on and on.....indeed, I am consistently reminded of this fact when quite a few of our regular Christian Fundies right here on JWD make statements that I previously would have believed only a JW elder would be capable of......
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  Little Drummer Boy

  LittleToe,

  Greetings Great One!

  I'm not sure if the genesis (slight pun intended - forgive me) for this thread was because of my comment on the other thread, but it would appear so given your zeroing in constantly on "depravity". I want to assure you here, as I also stated on that thread, that I understand the use of the term "depravity" in the religious sense, and forgive me for this, but be that as it may, I still object to it being thrown about and applied to atheists. The point that was being made by Perry in the other thread that caused my objection, was his application of the term in such a way that the target of the word was being made out to appear to have no moral/ethical center or character. In other words, the atheist can't possibly be a "good" person because they don't have Jeeeheebus in their life. That is what I find offensive, no matter which definition of "depravity" you want to use. Now, given that, I may be totally off the mark here and this thread wasn't aimed at me. It does however seem that way given the flurry of posts that happened on Perry's thread right after I raised my objection.

  As to the issue of needing further insight into theological terms in order to have a reasonable discussion, we (atheists) are, perhaps, a tad brighter than you might want to think and can generally "get it" from the context. If not, as other posters have mentioned, we probably won't be commenting on a thread dealing with deep religious beliefs - we don't care (at least I don't). Why would we?

  Repectfully,

  LDB
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  LittleToe

  LDB:
  You obviously don't "get it" at all.

  When the term "depravity" is used it isn't used against a particular class of people. It's an inclusive statement that the Christian also uses of himself. Atheists are not better or worse than Christians in the Christian worldview. That you seemingly take offense by this insistance would demonstrate my point completely.

  And for the record, I wasn't singling out any individual with this thread. It seemed an opportunity to play on the title of another thread to address soething that has been in my mind for some time. Sometimes its not about you, even if the atheistic viewpoint might have made ya a little egocentric
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  Little Drummer Boy

  Hi LittleToe,

  I understand what you are saying.

  I'll try yet again to make clear what I am saying, and address a couple of things.

  Sometimes its not about you, even if the atheistic viewpoint might have made ya a little egocentric

  Hear me very, very clearly on this. THAT WAS OUT OF LINE. I don't care what your post count is, how many emoticons you use to say it, or how long you have been registered.

  Okey-Dokey?

  Now than...

  1) As far as the insults you just threw...dunno why. I'm not being egocentric. I explained in my last post why I though this thread might have been directed at me, but I acknowledged that I could have been mistaken. Fair enough. You weren't aiming the thread at me. I said that that might be the case. If you were following that exact timing of posts, perhaps you would see why I felt it might apply to me. That's all. There was no need to start with the insults.

  2) As I have said twice now, I do understand the term "depravity". So knock it off please. Stop insulting my intelligence.

  3) To clarify, yet again, my problem with Perry's use of "depraviy" on the other thread was not with the definition. He wasn't just tossing that word around, but was actively trying to disparage another person because that person isn't a christian. It doesn't matter what your christian definition of "depravity" is, what matters is that, it appears that Perry's christian definition on that thread was using the most extreme definition and implying that the other poster was incapible of being a "good" person because he is an atheist.

  Just as an respectful observation LT, when I first came to this board a few months back, your posts always seemed to be balanced, and/or served as a sort of mediator type function between posters when the debate was getting a little too hot. I always, always liked it when you dropped into a thread. Your wry humor and sometimes quite brief comments would often leave me puzzled while I tried to determine your meaning. Sometimes you have been a little too cryptic for my tastes, but I appreciated that there was probably some deeper meaning that you meant us to see. I have, however, noticed that very recently your posting seems to be getting a bit nasty or even weird. Only you would know why that is. Please don't take offense to that. It is just an observation.
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  LittleToe

  LDB:If you want to take offense, and it appears that you do, then feel free. It's no sweat off of my b*lls. On the other hand you could attempt to take my words at face value when I state that they weren't intended to offend, and the emoticons were genuinely expressing a tongue-in-cheek view. If you think them insulting then... tough... I'm permitted to express myself, but I'm not permitted to force you to see my perspective. That's entirely your baby.

  Hear me very, very clearly on this. THAT WAS OUT OF LINE.

  No it wasn't. Even if I meant it, it still wasn't out of line. The fact that you currently appear to be living up to it I find highly ironic...

  If you were following that exact timing of posts, perhaps you would see why I felt it might apply to me. That's all.

  I understand and I can see why you might come to that conclusion. I would suggest that your perspective may be skewed, though, and I don't mean that in a derogatory way.

  There was no need to start with the insults.

  I didn't, you just saw it that way

  As I have said twice now, I do understand the term "depravity". So knock it off please. Stop insulting my intelligence.

  If you want me to insult your intelligence I will, because I'm accommodating like that, but meanwhile you still evidently don't understand the meaning of the theological term "depravity" as used, so kindly get off your high horse. I repeat, when the term is used by Christians it is never used to assail another group. Christians view themselves as the foremost of sinners in need of grace. Maybe you could ask Perry to comment on this statement, to see if I'm correct. If I'm wrong then I humbly apologise.

  I have, however, noticed that very recently your posting seems to be getting a bit nasty or even weird. Only you would know why that is.

  Maybe its love, since I recently got engaged
  As far as I'm aware nothing else has changed. Maybe you've only seem a small slice of the various facets to my personality, since you've been posting here for such a short time.

  Please don't take offense to that. It is just an observation.

  No offense taken. Similarly don't take any offense from my posts. If I ever intend to offend then the recipient is usually blithely unaware, so subtle is the Scottish mind
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  exwitless

  If I may (and risk getting caught in the cross-fire):

  If you want me to insult your intelligence I will, because I'm accommodating like that, but meanwhile you still evidently don't understand the meaning of the theological term "depravity" as used, so kindly get off your high horse.

  I believe that the issue originally was whether Athiesm and Evolution is dangerous. It was introduced behind the veil of a question, when we all know it was not a genuine question on Perry's part. It was a way for him to more gently state his opinion that any who are not people of a 'Godly' nature are a danger to themselves, that they are deluding themselves by thinking they can serve as their own moral compass.

  Emotions are bound to run high on a highly controversial topic such as this. Little Toe, I have always found your posts interesting and well thought out. However, I would just caution you that while you appear to be extremely self-confident in your intelligence (judging by the above-quoted statement), it's wise to temper your intelligence with a little humility and entertain the idea that maybe you are the one who 'doesn't get' what someone else is trying to say. Just a thought.
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  LittleToe

  exWit:
  I'm completely open to being shown that I've misunderstood something, but at the moment all I hear is someone telling me that I'm out of line for expressing my opinion. To be frank y'all aren't the only ones that had enough of that in the JWs. It seems that there are plenty of folks shouting down others on an adjacent thread for not getting the terminology right, but it looks to me like the pot calling the kettle black.

  I won't shout anyone down, but I will call it as I see it, and I'll be damned if I'll permit anyone to denigrate me for doing so. That has less to do with a lack of humility and intellectual confidence, and more to do with asserting my rights as a fellow poster, regardless of whether I've been here longer or shorter than anyone else, or posted more or less. Frankly things like that don't impress me, nor do I expect them to impress others. Make a good argument and I'm all ears...

  As for getting emotional about the subject - nope. I'm both a Christian and an evolutionist, so I can see a variety of angles on the debate. Having been online for over a decade, on a variety of webboards, I tend to keep my emotions in check.

  So, that having been said, if I'm barking up the wrong tree then let me know and I'll apologise.
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  LittleToe

  Stuff it - I'm not above apologising even when I don't know what I'm supposed to have done (I was married for over 12 years, after all).

  Sorry, y'all.