Have got myself in a bit of trouble

by Zico 37 Replies latest jw friends

  • Zico

    Not a big amount of trouble, only a little bit of trouble. It's not like I'm going to be disfellowshipped or anything. But would appreciate some information anyway! Please forgive the length!

    Anyway, the background.

    I was out Sunday evening, and driving home on my own, I spotted a young JW girl, only about 13/14 I think, I'm not sure, she was walking, and I estimate about 25 minutes from her house. I did the decent thing (or so I thought) and offered her a lift home in my car, only about a 5 minute drive. I would have done this had it been a boy, a non-JW I knew, or an older person, but maybe not an elder! I know her family relatively well, as my older MS brother is 'courting' her older sister.

    Then, just about 40 minutes ago, I received a phone call from her father, (not an elder) telling me he didn't 'appreciate' me taking his daughter home with nobody else in the car. WTF!? That really annoyed me.

    I asked him why he didn't 'appreciate it',
    he said 'you know why'
    I said 'no I don't, please tell me'
    he said 'You know you should have had a chaperone'
    I said 'No, I don't know, why should I have?'

    ... and then he told me he didn't like my attitude, and told me he might have to discuss it with some elders, and then asked me if my father was there. I told him he wasn't, so he asked me if my brother was there, I told him he wasn't. (They weren't) He then said 'I'll see you Tuesday then' and that was it. (I assume he meant see me at the Tuesday meeting, which he won't) Very brief, and very silly.

    I have to admit, I was being an ass, and I'll give him a little bit of credit for going straight to me, and not straight to the elders like most people would have. I'll also respect his wishes and not give his daughter or any of his children a drive home if I ever happen to see them in a similar position again.

    I find this all absolutely ridiculously though. They just can't just trust any of us. Why can't they trust that young people might love Jehovah like them, and try not to sin? I know some Witnesses have had sex whilst unchaperoned, I'm sure more have not had sex when unchaperoned, sometimes you just got to let things go. And of course, her being 13/4, and a probable future sister-in-law would make that far too weird and wrong for me. I'm absolutely certain I can control myself for a 5 minute drive with a young teen girl, and I'm quite sure she can do the same! (The most obscene thing being that if I couldn't control myself, the elders might even cover this up for me )

    So, I now have some questions. I did some searching and found little mention of the chaperone rule on the WT CD. Is this one of those unwritten rules that vary from Congregation to Congregation, or is it actually an official rule? I'm also pretty sure the need for chaperones is never mentioned in the bible, but I just want to confirm this. If the elders speak to me, I plan to demand scriptural support for any rules before they council me. (I'm not afraid of those bastards)

    On a final note, I will finish with this rather funny article I found in my search, from November 15th 1966:

    Questions from Readers

    ? At what age is it proper for a boy or a girl to start going out on “dates” with one of the opposite sex?—M. Q., U.S.A.

    With all the emphasis that is placed on this in the modern world, it is only natural that young folks are concerned about it. But it is not wise to let it become the matter of chief concern. Turn in your Bible to Ecclesiastes 12:1, and notice where it says youths should focus their interest. It reads: “Remember, now, your grand Creator in the days of your young manhood, before the calamitous days proceed to come, or the years have arrived when you will say: ‘I have no delight in them.’” Then see what verse 13 says: “The conclusion of the matter, everything having been heard, is: Fear the true God and keep his commandments. For this is the whole obligation of man.” Yes, this is the whole purpose of living; everything else we do in life produces good results only if it is kept in its proper relation to our service to God.

    When you are single you are free to move about and take up assignments in the service of God that married persons often cannot. There are marvelous blessings for those who take up the full-time ministry as Jehovah’s witnesses. You might serve at one of the Watch Tower Society’s Bethel homes or as a special pioneer or in the missionary work, possibly as a circuit servant, visiting and serving congregations. The years remaining before the end of this system of things are very few; the privileges now open will never be repeated; this is the time to take advantage of them.

    In time, most young folks do get married, but why get yourselves so emotionally involved that you feel impelled to marry almost as soon as you complete your schooling, or perhaps even before that? Why not get a taste of life first and lay hold of the service opportunities that are open to you? Once you have set your course in life, you can intelligently plan other things around it. You will be much happier if you do. Then, when the time comes that you want to take on the responsibilities that go with marriage, you will be better equipped to handle them in a right way.

    As to seeking close association with a person of the opposite sex, it is well to realize that this is not simply a form of recreation. The end to which it naturally leads is marriage. In some lands a young man and his bride-to-be never even visit together before their wedding; it is all arranged by their parents. In other places parents always chaperone their daughter until she is married, and it is not wise to offend the public sense of decency by ignoring that custom. However, in certain places a large number of parents do let their minor children keep company with one of the opposite sex unattended under certain circumstances. It is not up to the young persons to decide at what age this is to be permitted or if a chaperone will be required. That is the God-given responsibility of the father; and, if there is no living father in the home, the responsibility rests with the mother. Children who are seeking to do what is pleasing to the Lord will not try to take these matters into their own hands or pressure their parents to get their own way, but will wisely apply the counsel recorded at Colossians 3:20, namely: “You children, be obedient to your parents in everything, for this is well-pleasing in the Lord.”

    As for the parents, they must shoulder the responsibility and then be willing to face up to the consequences of their decisions.It is not for the Watch Tower Society to make rules for them to follow. [HA HA HA!] But it is a loving and considerate parent who firmly protects his child against emotional involvement until his offspring reaches an age when he is in position to follow through by getting married.

    It is not a kindness for parents to close their eyes to what is going on when their teen-age children begin to lavish affection on someone of the opposite sex, because this awakens desires in their bodies that cry out for satisfaction, and all too often they ruin their lives by getting involved in fornication. (1 Cor. 6:9, 10, 18) Nor does it show love on the part of Christian parents to allow their minor child to go out on “dates” and keep regular company alone with an unbeliever of the opposite sex, calling it recreation. It is heading their offspring into a life filled with heartache and grief and, in many cases, it will mean that they forsake the worship of Jehovah and lose out on life in the new system of things.—Deut. 7:3, 4; Neh. 13:26, 27.

    There are no two ways about it: Keeping close company with a person of the opposite sex is not a game; it is not recreation; it is a definite step toward assuming lifelong responsibilities.

  • anewme

    I really wouldnt worry about it too much Zico. The elders will counsel you thats all.
    And actually the counsel is not that worthless.

    I think it speaks more about our crazy times Zico than about your morals.

  • Warlock

    Next time, Brother Zico, let him/her/ them, walk. This is REALLY stupid that you should experience a session of interrogation for giving a young sister a ride. What if someone had come along and snatched her off the street? You would have been blamed for it because you saw her walking and didn't give her a ride. You cannot win, no matter what you do.


  • luvnau

    If they are so concerned about her.........what was she doing in the first place by herself! What if you had decided not to pick her up and then later heard she had been abducted or something horrible?!

    I think her father is being rediculous and you were doing the right "brotherly" thing. Hope all goes well.

  • needproof

    What a silly load of old nonsense.

    More to the point, what was he doing allowing his 13 year old daughter to walk the streets at night?

  • MinisterAmos

    Hey Bro!

    First the Dad is not being anything more than a straight up WT drone by contacting you first. The Dubs are encouraged to resolve issues between themselves before seeking Elder intervention.

    My wife's cousin is almost 30 y/o and her new hubby is mid-30's. Yes they used chaperones and the first time they were ever alone was the wedding night. Do you have any idea how striking absurd that was?

    In any case I recommend a witness when you are around minor children. The witch-hunt for "molestors" means lots of men who act innocently are having their words and action twisted both by the children and by law enforcement. See, they can't keep their levels of funding (and no raises) if the problem goes away or lessens.

  • avidbiblereader

    Zico, first I would tell him that he is ungrateful unappreciative idiot, he would rather worry about a 20 year old man driving his little girl home then worry about her getting raped and or molested.

    Second I would tell him, that you are of age and he doesn't need to talk to your daddy,

    Then use the scripture on him at Matt 11:16-19 16 “With whom shall I compare this generation? It is like young children sitting in the marketplaces who cry out to their playmates, 17 saying, ‘We played the flute for YOU , but YOU did not dance; we wailed, but YOU did not beat yourselves in grief.’ 18 Correspondingly, John came neither eating nor drinking, yet people say, ‘He has a demon’; 19 the Son of man did come eating and drinking, still people say, ‘Look! A man gluttonous and given to drinking wine, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ All the same, wisdom is proved righteous by its works.”

    Some people you just cant please no matter what you do.


  • Jim_TX

    Well... to quote my grandpa who would pull up alongside a hitchhiker (or someone else walking)...

    Grandpa (rolling down window) "Tired of walking?"

    Walking person "YEAH!" (walking towards car - expecting a ride)

    Grandpa "Well... RUN a while! HA HA HA HA!!!" (speeding away - throwing gravel)


    Sorry - I have no useful input on this. You know some JWs are arses.


    Jim TX

  • TD


    My opinion on something like this is probably not worth much, but I would guess that you're not in trouble.

    You weren't dating the girl, you're not romantically interested, (?) you were just being decent.

    Of course as a minor child, the wishes of her father need to be respected, but those wishes were unknown to you at the time.

    If his view of her moral character is that low, perhaps it would be best to steer clear of the whole family in future (?)

    I doubt the elders will put it as meanly as I have, but would guess that they will tell you basically the same thing.

  • truthsearcher

    As a parent to daughters, I can sort of see what the father's point was, since I go into alarm mode too whenever I sense a male within striking distance of my beauties! LOL! And we actually do have a "third nerd" policy for travelling. However, I think that he went about expressing his concerns in an unloving way. And, as you have admitted, your attitude was a little testy--that never helps the matter.

    As already mentioned, why was the daughter walking alone so far from home? I wouldn't have allowed that.

    Secondly, he should have thanked you for having the common decency to go the biblical "extra mile" and give the girl a ride home.

    Third, had you and he ever had a conversation about not being alone with the daughter? If not, then how would you know that was his preference?

    Fourth, it seems that the daugther should have been aware of the father's preference and should have said "Thanks, but I'm not supposed to travel unchaperoned".

    Fifth, maybe you should take it as a compliment--you must be such a stud that the father was worried about his daughter succumbing to your obvious personal charms! Girls of that age are notorious for crushing on older guys like yourself. Maybe she's been talking about you ever since...

    Here's how I would have done it: "Thank you so much for bringing daughter so and so home, it was so thoughtful of you to save her the walk. However, I would prefer in the future for there to be someone else in the car too. I hope you don't mind, but that is a rule we have, and I have already reinforced that again with daughter so and so. "

    Live and learn, right?

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