Is Atheism/Evolutionism Dangerous? Questions for Unbelievers

by Perry 156 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Deputy Dog

  Nark

  and Christianity in particular (please don't tell me it's not a religion, I know the mantra)

  I understand, I feel the same way about Atheism/Evolution. At least Dawkins admits it. Why is it that nobody wants to talk about the connection between Atheism/Evolution and Hitler? hillary_step

  What many religionists, especially of the Christian variety, seem unable to comprehend, is that atheists, agnostics and non-Christians do not view themselves as totally depraved and yet seem to be able to fulfil the Christian ethic to 'not judge others' with a far greater ease than do many Christians, including Perry!

  Here is the short list of judgments against me in this thread! masochistic as "totally depraved" as they pretend to be (I guess this meant dishonest) self-righteous arrogant anti-intellectual, anti-science disgusting Looks like the atheists, agnostics and non-Christians on this thread are having a tough time with the Christian ethic to 'not judge others'.

  derek

  but I can't think of anything more horrible than the idea that I don't deserve to live or to be loved, but that there's a super sky daddy who will love me and let me live anyway, as long as I do what he says.

  After all this time, you still think like a JW. My God gives grace even when I don't "do what he says".

  abaddon

  Enough with the worthless routine. It isn't convincing. To you, maybe... but to me as you are so sure you are right purely on the basis of internal factors you on some levels value the worth of your own reasoning above all else. How can you claim to be worthless when you effectively worship your unprovable opinion?

  You continue to show that you can't or don't understand. I'm depraved (bent toward constant sinning) not worthless, as an object of God's love and grace, I have great value!

  Perhaps if you read INSTITUTES OF THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION By John Calvin you would understand total depravity a little more clearly.

  Perry

  You could at times be less offensive by using the word "us" or "we" instead of a collective "you".

  Perry said to Dan:

  In your depraved state, you have only two options. (1) You can create an illusion of righteousness and justify yourself even though you continue to commit crimes against your neighbors and against God, (even if they seem to get less as you age). If you do this God is justified in punishing you the same way you already admitted you would punish other "uncivilized people". How could you complain if God judged you by your own standards?

  You may win a few more people by stating the same thing this way.

  In our depraved state, we have only two options. (1) we can create an illusion of righteousness and justify ourselves even though we continue to commit crimes against our neighbors and against God, (even if they seem to get less as we age). If we do this God is justified in punishing us the same way we already admitted we would punish other "uncivilized people". How could we complain if God judged us by our own standards?
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  LittleToe

  Oh the joys of communication and jargon. A common complaint on threads such as this is that Creationists don't understand the scientific jargon and hence need to get an education to avoid making fools of themselves. I totally agree.

  Correspondingly if you're going to argue with Christians you should take the time to understand theological jargon, lest the same fate befall you. "Depravity" is a case in point. The other shoe drops...
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  LtCmd.Lore

  Man did you guys get off topic... whether or not atheism is dangerous do to lack of reasons for morals has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not believers have any special knowledge about what god wants or not. So...
  

  In response to the original question.

  I submit this link that explains how a lot of us atheists, me incluced, feel about morality. (I can't speak for all of 'em so don't argue with me about that.)

  http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/carrot&stick.html

  If your only reason for reading this far is to argue with atheists, then I don't expect you to read all of that, in fact I doubt you'll even follow the link. But if you are acctualy interested in the topic of atheistic morality then you'll probably enjoy that site.

  LtCmd.Lore
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  ellderwho

  Looks like the atheists, agnostics and non-Christians on this thread are having a tough time with the Christian ethic to 'not judge others'.

  Whoa! Wait a minute Dog that statement was "responsive" not "declaritve" and should'nt be taken literally. Silly Xian. Your not comprehending.
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  Mad

  A vs E is a result of the ridiculous example of the Churches- starting with the Catholic Church that would execute scientists who would reveal truth that confilcted with church "truth".

  Look at what the churches teach today; that the Earth was created in 6 24-hour days! Tuesday all the dinosaurs popped into existance- then were wiped out Wednesday! Why even GENESIS shows the Earth existed for a long time; it opens describing the Earth as a waste before the Creative Days began- several without the sunlight reaching the Earth to FORM 24-hour days. Then Chapter 2 opens referring to the whole Creative Period as ONE day.

  Now- on the other hand, scientists-seeing the phony religions, sought OTHER possibilities as to the origin of life- ignoring the one word that UTTERLY destroys the theory of evolution- and PROVES Creation: DESIGN!

  Mad
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  hillary_step

  Deputy and elderwho,

  This is my original post on the subject :

  Perry,

  But make no mistake, any "Christian" who judges himself as superior to you in anyway is not a Christian. He's a religionist.

  Hillary-Step,

  Who are you to judge God so that I should follow your misdirection and judge Him as you tempt me to do? He is infinite in all respects. You are but a vapor. Have you ever denied a young child a sharp steak knife at the dinner table and gave him a butter knife instead? Here you pronounce the same kind of object both good and bad. Good for you because of your greater ability, agility and carefulness and bad for the toddler because of his lack of such qualities.

  ...and which are you Perry?

  It is against the backdrop of being judged by Perry, and then noticing his hypocrisy that I made the comments that have had you both trying to look at the tip of your nose with both eyes.

  Can neither of you follow a thread for longer than a few seconds without losing your train of thought? Read my posts is context and stop misrepresenting what I said.

  Thank you - HS
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  LittleToe

  Mad:

  Look at what the churches teach today...

  And would that be the one phrase that utterly destroys the theory of creation and proves evolution?

  LT, of the "Christian evolutionist" class
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  funkyderek

  Deputy Dog:

  I understand, I feel the same way about Atheism/Evolution. At least Dawkins admits it.

  Admits what? That "Atheism/Evolution" is a religion? That seems to be what you're saying, so either I'm misinterpreting you or you're talking utter nonsense. Could you please clarify which.

  Why is it that nobody wants to talk about the connection between Atheism/Evolution and Hitler?

  What connection is that exactly? If you wish, we can talk about the connection between Christianity and Hitler, but I'm really not sure how it's relevant to the thread.

  Looks like the atheists, agnostics and non-Christians on this thread are having a tough time with the Christian ethic to 'not judge others'.

  Like you say, it's a Christian ethic. Judging people is actually a good thing and we do it all the time. People who consistently talk nonsense are normally and rightly judged as ignorant or stupid, for example.

  After all this time, you still think like a JW. My God gives grace even when I don't "do what he says".

  I figured that, but I didn't want to further embarrass you. It's bad enough that some believe they have to obey the sky-daddy in order for him to "save" them from the punishment that he would otherwise inflict on them. It strikes me as vastly more absurd that he would do this merely because people believe in him. But then, perhaps that's what depravity does to a person.

  LittleToe:

  Correspondingly if you're going to argue with Christians you should take the time to understand theological jargon, lest the same fate befall you. "Depravity" is a case in point. The other shoe drops...

  Good point. I read the word depravity and assumed its general dictionary definition: "moral perversion; impairment of virtue and moral principles" or similar. But in theology, it appears there's more. It seems to be part of a doctrine that not only are all humans depraved in this sense of the word, but they are all inherently incapable of choosing to do the right thing. Only those chosen by God to be his puppets will be allowed to escape the depravity he inflicts on the rest of us, allowing anyone who swallows this preposterous concept to completely abdicate personal responsibility
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  LittleToe

  Derek:
  LOL - while some would undoubtedly use your version of the definition (e.g. Hyper Calvinists ), most wouldn't take such an extreme view of the meaning.

  In laymans terms it decribes mankind being prone to error, or "imperfect" as the WTS would have had it.
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  DanTheMan

  Accept? Not necessarily. That's your choice. Tolerate? Yes. At a minimum. Unless you can (1) prove me wrong or (2) I attempt to compel your acceptance on the strength of my personal experiences.

  1. When somebody claims that supernatural forces guide the patterns of their synaptic firings, it's up to me to prove them wrong?

  2. If I find someone's "attempt to compel" unsatisfactory, am I then free to reject their claims, and state openly that I think that they use the word "God" to give unmerited authority to their own opinion?