JW Children Lie in Custody Cases

by compound complex 290 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • sf

    From his site {yes, you too will see the hypocrisy for yourselves...you are most welcomed}}:

    I enjoyed a "liberal" Jehovah's Witness upbringing that is atypical of most Jehovah's Witness children in that I was permitted to engage in extra-curricular and summer activities as a boy and teen (baseball, bowling league, etc.) and to play sports in school among other non-traditional activities for a Witness such as being involved with planning, decorating and attending Prom and Homecoming, going to dances, being in production of West Side Story, science club and other similar things. I played on the school sports teams, football, basketball and track since 6th grade and in high school I lettered in Football and Tennis.

    My childhood was typical of a Jehovah's Witness upbringing in that I did not salute the flag, participate in holiday parties, celebrate birthdays, attended most meetings (but almost never went out in service), etc. I like to believe that I was a very upright person, with the occasional lapse into teenage shenanigans and a certain penchant to take risks and sometimes break the law.

    Typical. Atypical. Which EXACTLY was it Brother?

    Geez, your story, along with all these photos, brings dust to my eyes.


  • sf


    Damn Brother, what's with the begging for donations, using your child?

    Does your family know about your activity here?

    I'd say the label "a typical, lying, manipulative jw at heart" fits you perfectly, after reading your entire two sites and googling your name and usernames.

    Tell me Brother, have you ever been ANY TYPE of consultant for WTBTS?

    Are they aware of what your websites contain?

    Perhaps they should be.


  • metatron

    I think this discussion is an excellent example of the cliche, "not seeing the forest for the trees".

    It is clear that Watchtower lawyers intend to craft testimony and get the child to say what they wish.

    Isn't it obvious that this is inherently dishonest? That this is suborning perjury or very close to it?

    The whole of the advice militates against an honest and forthright disclosure of what the child really thinks or wants.

    Apparently, they have discerned that past efforts at testimony by children was ineffective because the kids came

    across as robots - and they intend to craft testimony around that appearance.

    The above is yet another example of the Watchtower's dishonesty while obeying the law. If I sold you a fake

    product or service, I could go to jail for fraud but that doesn't apply to religions committing fraud thru

    false predictions, does it?

    I'll say it again: Modern corporations operate according to a higher ethical standard than the Watchtower



  • sf
    The whole of the advice militates against an honest and forthright disclosure of what the child really thinks or wants.

    Precisely. As is par for EVERY child {of} The Watchtower.

    As I've said numerous times, jws don't only wear their Masks well, they force their children to learn the tricks of the WT Trade, by teaching them how, when and where to wear them.

    Simply, an abomination.Where has the lying Eduardo run off to? No doubt he is busy screening phone calls.




  • Oroborus21

    Actually Skally,

    i was busy working.

    and to be frank I don't think I have ever read one of your posts that was either reasonable or perceptive.

    your citations in this thread are indicative of how you fail to grasp the SIMPLEST things:

    For example I stated what were the things "atypical" of a "usual" JW upbringing: sports, etc. and the things "typical" of a JW upbringing: no holidays, etc. This is not a contradiction but I know enough from reading your posts to know that you don't even understand how it isn't contradictory.

    Your citation from my daughter's website is even more indicative of how ignorant and sad to say brainless you are. That site is for my daughter and made so that my family who don't live in California and her mother's family in Europe can feel more connected to her. The page you mentioned is just an opened ended invitation to these family and friends to help contribute towards her college savings plan if they want to. What's your problem? (besides being REALLY stupid)

    and no, I have no desire to talk to someone like you.

    you make Johnny Cip seem reasonable and that is saying something.

    Its funny how people have to resort to ad hominem attacks when they aren't able to continue discussing and defending their arguments.

    As for me, I have pretty much said my piece on this topic. I give weight to Uzzah's assertion, if he has first hand insider information as he claims, about the intent of the CCB.

    The INTENT of the booklet was to ensure the JW parent cast the best possible light before the Court and the extreme nature of the the religious expectations upon JW's was minimized.

    I agree with that as it agrees with what i have stated previously in this thread about minimizing the view that JWs are religious fanatics.

    Where I disagree with Uzzah and apparently almost everyone else in this thread is whether that also means that the "purpose" is to deceive the court or whether the CCB is deceptive. Unfortunately, other than his "it is because I say that it is and I was involved" claim, Uzzah doesn't offer any further proof or rationale for his claim that the purpose of the booklet is deceptive. Being an insider, he should have more than just his word.

    Aside to Junction Guy:

    You don't know what you are talking about. Something is protected by copyright when it is created and fixed in a "permanent" form. registraton of a work (writing) is not necessary to receive copyright protection and only a fraction of things which are copyrightable are registered. In any case, whether something is registered or not has absolutely no effect on whether such a thing might serve as the basis for a legal suit.

    And FYI, this is not a "secret set of documents" (contrary to what somepeople may believe). the announcement of its availability has appeared in the Kingdom Service/Our Kingdom Ministry every year since its inception. (but not sure about the last couple of years since i only have a 2004 CDROM)

  • Uzzah

    Nice attempt to discredit or miminize 'my testimony' The type of 'evidence' you are looking for will never be found. You want something on Society letterhead advising that this booklet was created to deceive the court? They aren't THAT stupid.

    I have proven myself and my claims over the years, from H20 through to the child abuse issue (have gone on television and given testimony) to now. I too have 'defended' the Borg against wrongful/bogus attacks. I have long insisted that there is enough honest evidence against them that stuff does not need to be made up to prove they cannot be representatives of god.

    Where we differ is that I am not a disfellowshipped person trying to weasel my way into the proverbial grey area 'just in case' the JW's are right. Imitating the worst of the lawyer stereotype, you are so caught up in the loopholes thinking that somehow you may still warrant salvation/ divine acceptance, with your luke-warm cowardice. "be either cold or hot but luke warm, I will vomit you out of my mouth."

    I however recognized the faults of the JW, walked away from it on my own and unlike yourself am not a mealy-mouthed ego-maniac as is evidenced by your online biography. To quote a lawyer "sometimes a good man has to stand up for what is right, even if it is not popular amongst one's peers." Have you ever taken a stand on anything without covering your ass... oops I mean hedge you bets with a bunch of legal loopholes? Taking a stand on principal alone and being willing to take a hit on that firm stance?

    JW lawyers regularly attempt to deceive the courts. For example, Bethany Hughes. To have a Bethelite Lawyer (Shane Brady) claim to represent the best interests of the child as the child's attorney is an outright lie. Should a minor child represented by a Bethel attorney, make the personal choice to accept blood, would that lawyer continue representing the child? No. The child and the family would be left high and dry.

    During a divorce hearing, the JW attorney is not representing the JW parent but protecting the JW religion. Yet they continue to be the sole representation in some JW custody cases. They are not filing for Amicus status, they are claiming to represent the individual.

    When preparing elders, expert witnesses and children to give testimony in court they encourage deceitful practices tantamount to and including outright lying. That is the purpose of the booklet under discussion.

    I have heard elders testify in court (per their coaching) that family relationships are not affected by the act of disfellowshipping. How is that for teaching people to lie under oath? It is justified using the 'Theocratic war strategy' of bending the truth. Disfellowshipping does not end the relationship, 'he will always be your father.' You don't need to elaborate any further to the court. But with rare exception, anyone disfellowshipped has had their familial relationships negatively altered as a result. That is but one example.

    How do you slant your answers (slant as in alter from your normal pattern of truthful response) in order to get what is best for the religion, NOT what is in the best interests of the child. No-where in those publications does it discuss that element. What is best for the child. In some cases the non-JW parent IS the better parent in other cases it may be the JW parent.

    That point is lost to the JW's. It is all about protecting their religion. It has nothing to do with their clients nor the children. That in and of itself shows the deceit. I am hopeful that even you as a lawyer can recognize that fact.


  • Uzzah

    One other example comes to mind. During Vicki Boer's case, Canadian bethel lawyer, John Burns gave testimony. He was asked about the "flock book." He claimed not to have any knowledge of such a publication. It was then referred to as the "Pay Attention" book, the elder's handbook. He continued to claim ignorance of knowing any such publication.

    It was not until the actual book was presented, the title read off in full that he then acknowledged that he has seen and read that publication.

    John Burns is a congregation elder, a Bethel elder and the lead lawyer in the Canadian legal department (Glen How is just a figurehead now). Are you telling me that the above testimony by an officer of the court was anything close to truthful? His intent was to be deceitful. He felt he didn't actually lie since the 'real name' of the publication wasn't used initially, but it cannot be viewed as completely honest (the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.)

  • sf
    to be frank

    Seriously Ed, is there any other way TO be?

    I don't think I have ever read one of your posts that was either reasonable or perceptive.

    THAT'S not my problem Brother. I thought lawyers were good at reading BETWEEN the lines. Perhaps A New Pair of Glasses is needed when reading ME.

    your citations in this thread are indicative of how you fail to grasp the SIMPLEST things:

    LOL!! I? I fail to grasp the SIMPLEST {of} Things? I'm sure I'm not the only one laughing at the ridiculousness of this statement by you Brother Watchtower. But for fun, let's just imagine I am. LOL!!

    This is not a contradiction but I know enough from reading your posts to know that you don't even understand how it isn't contradictory.

    Your beloved WATCHTOWER ORGANIZATION runs on contraDICK tions Brother. You seem to be tripping over your lower appendage there Brother trying to do the "intimidation shuffle" with me. Won't work. Your 'kind' are weak in my eyes. There are plenty out there though Brother that will gladly slurp you right up. I'll just spit you out.

    have no desire to talk to someone like you.

    Desire? Translation: BALLS. Like me? Translation: UN-LIKE you.

    These are just typed words Brother. This is NOTHING in comparison to what actually comes out of my mouth. [ shut up OUTLAW!! LOL!!! ]

    That site is not soley designated for the family. You would have made it a private, password protected site.

    You know what gives me the most satisfaction when dealing with weak men like you Ed? Guess!

    you make Johnny Cip seem reasonable and that is saying something.

    Trust me on this, johnny doesn't like his butt kissed. Nice try though. Johnny and I were quite the pair back in the day. See, he HAS balls Brother. THAT is saying something.

    I have pretty much said my piece on this topic.


    I feel a bit de-flated. In more ways than one. Good night and good luck.


    {{{{{{{{{{{ uzzah }}}}}}}}}}}}


  • Junction-Guy

    I applaud JohnnyCip, Skally, Bryan, and all the others who had the balls to call you out on what you really are. People on this board have suffered because they were either "brainwashed" into this cult or were forced into it by their parents, and you had a non-typical JW upbringing, you got to play sports, attend school dances, attend college. You were allowed things that most JW's only dream of, and then you have the gall to come on this board and make us out to be the liars. You had a non-typical JW childhood, if it had been otherwise then you most likely wouldnt be anywhere near in life where you are today, and you wouldnt be looking to defend the WT Society at the drop of a hat. I guess life must be good for you, driving around in your beamer, sipping champagne, and laughing at all the people who have suffered under this rotten devil inspired cult. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------You're deceitful reasoning is just like the WT Society, whenever you open your mouth here, it reeks of JW-ism. I too wouldnt be surprised if you are on retainer for the WT Society. Why not use some that "slickness" you were taught and put it to good use by helping the abused children in this cult?

  • Junction-Guy

    And you are definitely "lukewrm" as was pointed out in a previous response. If you are such a succesful attorney, why do you waste your time on this board defending the WT Society? What kind of gratification do you get from defending a cult that has destroyed 1000's of lives and families?

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