Eduardo droned: As for Mary, when it is obvious that someone cannot be reasoned with it seems pointless to attempt it. Someone who begins their post stating that JWs are "religous fanatics" pretty much demonstrates that they have strong intractable opinions about them.
Riiight. Because we all know that Witnesses are really balanced in their viewpoints regarding religion, worldly people, doctrine and all other aspects of life. How foolish and unreasonable of me to assert that Witnesses are viewed as "religious fanatics" just because they hang on every utterance that spews forth out of Bethel, let their children die rather than take a blood transfusion, and will go to the ends of the earth to be viewed as "different" than any other religion.
Mary's post is full of blanket generalizations that are belied by the actual facts and experience of many Witnesses.
Eduardo, obviously my statements are generalized. I'm well aware that there are some Witnesses who allow their kids to have worldly friends and even some who let their children go on to university. I applaud them. But the majority of Witnesses are not like that and you and I know it.
She claims, for example, that Witness kids are not allowed to have normal social contact with non-Witness kids. It isn't clear what she would consider "normal"
Oh let's see.....I would consider being allowed to go over to a worldly friends' house after school, or have a sleep over, or even going to a school dance as "normal". I would also include being allowed to participate in activities like school plays for Christmas, or exchanging Valentines cards with your classmates, going rollerskating, to a movie or even shopping as "normal" activities. Most Witness kids are not allowed to do any of the above; proof that they are not allowed to have normal association with their peers outside of the religion.
Certainly, many Witnesses not only have normal (casual) acquaintances with non-Witness schoolmates, neighbors and workmates, but many of them have close non-Witness friends.
As I said, I applaud those that do, but that is not the norm in Dubdumb land. There are countless talks and articles, (as I provided) which so strongly discourages non-necessary contact with "worldly" people, that any Witness that ignores this council, is viewed as either being "weak in the truth", or not "listening to the council provided by the F&DS."
As for her claim that "countless WT examples" show that Witness children can't have "normal interests" that is just stupid on the face of it. Pick up any Awake! magazine and you can read about various such activities, hobbies, and interests. Every Young People Ask article is practically about how it is fine for the person to have an interest in music, movies, literature and a thousand other things. Only for Mary if the Society adds counsel that warns about not being imbalanced in such things or avoiding such thngs that might be morally corrupting, apparently that makes it "abnormal."
And what do they consider "imbalanced" Eduardo? As I demonstrated, if your hobbies or interest interfere with any of the man made regulations, such as 5 meetings a week, preparing for them, Service, personal study, the assemblies, then you can kiss your hobby goodbye. And what happens if you decide you want to pursue a sport as something more than just a hobby like my brother did? You know full well that that is NOT acceptable in this cult and they'll come down on you like a ton of bricks if you wish to pursue such a course.
And that is exactly the situation that the Child Custody Brochure is reminding the counsel or JW parent to do with the child -- to help them understand that in this situation of a child custody examination that they can feel free to talk about their OTHER interests. It is not a matter of hiding what is most important to them, their faith, nor is a mattter or trying to make them seem normal. JWs are not normal in many ways and can't be made to appear so. But neither are they abnormal in every way.
I agree that they are not abnormal in every way, but as you yourself said, they are not "normal in many ways and can't be made to appear so." But that is exactly what they're attempting to do by encouraging the children to minimize the bizarre unwritten rules of the religion and emphasize things that the Organization either strongly discourages or minimizes. That,sir, is called 'deception'.
For example one that she highlighted stated that "hobbies and other activities are not permitted to interfere with meeting nights." That obviously proves that one (the person referred to) DOES have hobbies and other activities. (Duh!) But Mary highlights it because she doesn't like that the Society advocates not letting such things interfere with the meetings. Similarly, Mary highlighted a quote which stated that a married couple put away "some" of their non-theocratic hobbies, etc. She ignores that it doesn't say "ALL" but only "some" of these activities.
In case you're too thick to understand why I quoted this, it's because the religion already takes up an enormous amount of a person's life each and every week. It's not just a matter of 5 hours of meetings. There's the preparation for it, getting ready for the meetings etc. Then there's Service and preparation for that, plus your family study and any talks you might have to prepare for on top of all that. On a Tuesday night for example, your evening is taken up from at least 6:00pm - 10:00pm when you factor in getting ready, preparing for it, travel time etc. When you include the bookstudy, the Sunday meeting, Saturday morning field service, and everything else, you're looking at anywhere from 14 - 20 hours a week doing activities that are considered mandatory, not optional, by the Society. This is an enormous amount of time, especially as the average church only requires at the most, 1 or 2 hours on a Sunday. And if you work full time, the strain is even worse. Therefore, for the GB to even suggest that any hobbies or interests you have might have to be shelved or severely limited if they're interfering with "meeting attendence" or "service", just goes to show that they are not "balanced" in their views of the R&F pursuing outside interests or hobbies, not the other way around.
IF the the CCB stated something like "Make sure that they don't say that their (the children's) faith is of primary importance" then in that case it would be contradictory to the Society's publications and JW culture and also it would be asking the children to deceive the court. BUT THAT is clearly NOT what the CCB states: IF the the CCB stated something like "Make sure that they don't say that their (the children's) faith is of primary importance" then in that case it would be contradictory to the Society's publications and JW culture and also it would be asking the children to deceive the court.
BUT THAT is clearly NOT what the CCB states:
"Be careful that they [JW children being questioned] don't get the impression that they are in a demonstration at the circuit assembly, when they would show that the first things in life are service and going to the Kingdom Hall. Show hobbies, crafts, social activity, sports, and especially plans for the future.
"Be careful they don't all say that they are going to be pioneers. Plans can be trade, getting married and having children, journalism, and all kinds of other things. Maybe you can show an interest in art and the theatre. They must be clean, moral, HONEST, but with interests you would expect from other young people." [CC: emphasis]
It can't be any more clearer that what is being told to counsel or the JW parent is to ensure that the child understands that they are to relate the whole story of what their interests are and what their plans are.
No Eduardo, it can't be any more clear that you're nearly as bad at the GB for twisting words. I can't believe you actually wrote this statement in light of the fact that this is exactly what they're saying as is demonstrated by their own words:
"Be careful that they [JW children being questioned] don't get the impression that they are in a demonstration at the circuit assembly, when they would show that the first things in life are service and going to the Kingdom Hall. Show hobbies, crafts, social activity, sports, and especially plans for the future.
You said: IF the the CCB stated something like "Make sure that they don't say that their (the children's) faith is of primary importance" then in that case it would be contradictory to the Society's publications and JW culture and also it would be asking the children to deceive the court.
There is no difference in what you stated above that would be deceptive and what they are actually saying. "their faith is of primary importance" is no different that "the first things in life are service and going to the KH". Apparently, you are the only one who can't see that.
