CHRISTMAS: December 25th DOES have a Biblical foundation! CHECK IT OUT! (page 2)

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By celebrating Christmas on Dec. 25th, we may well be celebrating the conception of Jesus. Remember the miracle was not in the Birth of Jesus but in the conception of Mary by the Holy Spirit.

So why does Christmas involve the Manger Scene with a new born Jesus instead of a scene of Mary being fcked by gawd?

They could call it the Randy Scene.

Lady Liberty

Found this to be interesting too:

Part One: Is Christmas Pagan?

This message will take the form of a simulated discussion between a Jehovah's Witness named Joe and a Christian named Chris.

Chris: Joe can you explain to me why Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Christmas?

Joe: Sure, Chris. Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Christmas because we do not participate in pagan celebrations, and we know that Jesus was not born on December 25.

Chris: Why do you call Christmas a pagan celebration? Certainly celebrating God's gift of his son would not qualify as a pagan celebration.

Joe: December 25 is the date of the winter solstice and Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the sun was strong at Rome.

Chris: So what you are saying is that Christians celebrated a pagan celebration and just continued to do so by changing its name.

Joe: That's right, Chris.

Chris: Were you aware that this is not what the Watchtower originally taught was the origin of Christmas?

Joe: What do you mean?

Chris: In The Time is at Hand, Vol. 2 of the Studies in the Scriptures on page 61 it discusses the date of the birth of Christ. It says "...we could not be certain that the exact day might not be in September about the 27 th , but October 1 st , B.C. is about correct. Nine months back of that date would bring us to about Christmas time, 3 B.C., as the date at which our Lord laid aside the glory which he had with the Father before the world was made and the taking of or changing to human nature began. It seems probable that this was the origin of the celebration of December 25 th as Christmas Day. Some writers on Church history claim, even, that Christmas Day was originally celebrated as the date of the annunciation by Gabriel to the virgin Mary." Joe, the Watchtower at one time agreed with Church history that the origin of Christmas was the celebration of the gift of God's son from his conception. Just because this conception happened around a pagan celebration does not make it pagan. If celebrating the gift of God's son is so wrong, how come God allowed the celebration for so long before the Watchtower ever declared it wrong?

Joe: I know that the Watchtower used to celebrate Christmas but when they learned that it was tied into paganism, they stopped celebrating it.

Chris: In the December 15, 1903 Watchtower, Charles Russell wrote concerning Christmas that even though he did not agree with the date which he said wasn't important, he said "..we may properly enough join with all whose hearts are in the attitude of love and appreciation toward God and toward the Saviour." Both Charles Russell and Joseph Rutherford your first and second presidents celebrated Christmas and even encouraged others to participate in the celebration and to give Watchtower books as gifts. All this was at a time when the Watchtower says that Jesus was inspecting all churches to see which he would pick as the only "faithful and wise servant". How is it that celebrating the gift of God's son was alright back then but now is such a bad thing that a person can lose his everlasting life? How is it that God allowed Christians for almost two thousand years to honor the gift of his Son and then suddenly changed his mind?

Joe: I'm not sure how to answer you. I know that I used to celebrate Christmas as a small child before my family became Witnesses and I never thought it was wrong then. But now I have learned things like the wise men were dupes of Satan, led by a Satanic star. The whole Christmas scene was led by Satan not God.

Chris: I would be interested in talking with you about the star of Bethlehem and the wise men. Could we get together next week to discuss this?

Joe: Sure.

Go to part two: Is the Star of Bethlehem

Sincerely,

Lady Liberty

jayhawk1

Joe: December 25 is the date of the winter solstice and Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the sun was strong at Rome.

Actually December 22 is the date of the winter solstice. But when it comes to Watchtower, sorta close is the same as being right.

Much like 1914, they teach Satan was thrown to Earth, starting WWI in October when Jesus came invisably, but we all know WWI started in August 1914. Ah well, close enough.

mama1119

Wow, good stuff, I have never thought about that!!

A-Team

Keep in mind of this, most JWs feel that the Birth wasn't important at all, only his Death.

Um, let me see here.........You can't have Death without Birth, which makes both equally as important....and since that his blood saved us, and his Ressurrection opened the Gates of Heaven, You might just say all 3 are as important as the other 2.

Leolaia

Actually December 22 is the date of the winter solstice.

Under the Gregorian calendar it has (December 21-22), but not so in earlier years...the date has crept slowly backward over the past millennia when reckoned by the "Old Style" Julian calendar:

5600 BC: January 30th
5000 BC: January 26th
4500 BC: January 23rd
4000 BC: January 19th
3500 BC: January 16th
3000 BC: January 12th
2500 BC: January 9th
2000 BC: January 5th
1500 BC: January 2nd
1000 BC: December 29th
800 BC: December 28th
500 BC: December 26th
168 BC: December 24th (making Chislev 25 fall on December 25th)
165 BC: December 24th
2 BC: December 23rd
AD 200: December 21st
AD 500: December 19th
AD 800: December 17th
AD 1000: December 15th
AD 1400: December 12th
AD 1582: December 22nd (New Style date, switch to Gregorian calendar)
AD 1650: December 21st
AD 1850: December 22nd
AD 2006: December 22nd

The earliest reference to the date of Sol Invictus is in the chronography of Philocalus (written in AD 354). The online text is found here:

http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/chronography_of_354_06_calendar.htm

Notice that on 25 December was N(atalis) Invicti C(ircenses) M(issus), whereas Ludi Saturnalia fell on 17 December.

Leolaia

BTW, I know that the Julian calendar wasn't used in 5600 BC, but I indicated the Julian reckoning for that year (and the BC years that followed) to illustrate the extent of drift...

Abandoned

Chris: I would be interested in talking with you about the star of Bethlehem and the wise men. Could we get together next week to discuss this?

Lady Liberty, don't take this the wrong way, but I love you. This is too funny. I hope I get to do this sometime.

Triple A

I have often thought about this. I think WT has too, which may be the REAL reason behind their hatred of birthday celebrations.

IMO, the GB does not hate birthdays. It is just one more way to rule over the average JW and make sure that they are maching in lock step with their Master.

CHRISTMAS: December 25th DOES have a Biblical foundation! CHECK IT OUT!

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