I NEED ADVICE DESPERATELY!!! (page 4)

tdogg

I think you are on the right track. Let him research these things now, before he goes back and will no longer be able to look. The freemind website has helped me look honestly at many issues. If you both are really in love, it will be worth going through this. At least you will find out how strong your relationship is.

patio34

Dear ConcernedFiance,

I'm glad you've joined the board and your situation is very interesting. There have been many good suggestions.

One thing that i keep wondering about though is that it is NOT a disfellowshipping offense for him to marry you. True, JWs are not supposed to marry out of their religion, but they do not kick such ones out.

Pat

Francois

I'm saddened to hear your story and I hope I can offer some small advice that might help.

First, attempt to get him to agree not to make any decision while there is so much emotionalism going on. Every decision I know of made while the situation was emotional was a bad decision, regretted by all.

Second, please don't rely on reason, rationality to get through to him. It won't. Religion is an emotional phenomena, not rational.

Third, consider getting him to read Ray Franz' book "Crisis of Conscience" if he hasn't already.

Fourth, instead of relying on reason, as noted above, rely on the statements of the Jehovah's Witnesses themselves. There is a site sponsored by, I think, someone named Tallyman. I feel certain someone will chime in with the URL. It's a treasure chest of quotations from the JWs, all of them pure nonsense. Indict and convict them with their own words. It's one of the best, if not THE best way to help someone see the falsity, stupidity and the downright criminality of the WTB&TS.

Francois

Free2Bme

Concerned,
Just wanted to say I think one or two comments have been a little harsh on your fiance.
I don't see his gut reaction as a self-preservation thing. More like a genuine fear he is ignoring a prod from God. Those moments of intense spiritual need hit the worst of us. It's easy to feel guilty after years of brainwashing from the society. He probably feels his choice is between God and you not his own life and you. If his concern was mainly for his own life then I agree with those that advised you to move on. But I'd like to think he is just a genuine guy who loved his God intensely once and never really got over it. Giving you up in that case would be a kind of bittersweet martyrdom ensuring God's favour and your fiances' relief despite his misery.

Hope you sort him out and help him recover from his JW deeprooted indoctrination. I'm sure he will be a different guy after his heart and mind is freed from it all.

Free

Introspection

Hi Free2B,

I don't see his gut reaction as a self-preservation thing. More like a genuine fear he is ignoring a prod from God.

I'm glad you pointed this out. I guess I should have distinguished more precisely when I wrote that, but I tend to view the self in terms of ego as well as physical preservation (or soul, but JWs believe the physical organism is the soul so..) as one issue. So, I saw this indoctrinated fear as a part of his self, who he is. Trying to go 'beyond the self' is actually probably not a good general course of action if you're just trying to focus on getting over the JWs, it could very well be that the ego needs to be bolstered in some way. Obviously, this shows my own bias in a way, but if someone is interested in pursuing some kind of spiritual path it just seems logical to me that you work with that. If you only focus on what is not true and what not to do, you leave the person with nothing. Now THAT is a very threatening thing to the ego isn't it? I guess my own view is that it can be an opportunity for mental and spiritual growth, but certainly you don't want to push it so that it becomes a breakdown rather than a breakthrough, as Ken Wilber puts it.. Anyways, I just hope this information is helpful to Concerned, she would know him best after all.

concerned fiance

thanks for the advice from everyone, lots to think about. does anyone have the web site for tallyman's quotes that was referred in francois' post?

Dogpatch

Dear concerned,
Your fiance sounds very honest and straightforward. I know he wants to know the truth, but the suddenness of everything has him reeling. We've all been there. You are very lucky indeed he is at this point. Give him a lot of emotional support, and my prayers are with both of you.
Randy Watters

OhHappyDay

Dear Concerned,

it is not strictly "forbidden" for a JW to mary an outsider. I had to resign from diferent "privileges". But since she was studiyng I was seen as a victim of my feelings. I showed the elders that i felt bad about that situation even I loved my wife. Theu were VERY comprehensive and (since the situation could not be changed any more) they assumed a position like "go for it, be a good husband, you may convince her". I remember sometimes she was disappointed with me saying that when I showed regrets of our non-ortodox relationship I was bertaying her someway. But she was very patient always believing in my true feelings...
At last, just a few years after marriage I was invited to get back old "priviledges" and the Circuit Overseer came at my house with an elder giving me advice to do some more field service, I was an example for others (since i always told to young fellows NOT do do the same thing "listen I MARRIED that way, so I know better, marry just in the Lord my friend"- imagin THAT!!)and if I could improve my field service Jehovah for sure would need me as an elder in my cong...
Guess what... I liked that. The Watchtower Society could have the proper name: CLOSED Watchtower Society. My marriage somehow was an aid to open my eyes even years later. From your original Post I make the reading that You fiancee has walked down a good part of that road before. Stick to him, for a while. He can mail me, if he wants. Tell him I continue to be known as JW so I can reach some family members before being silenced by DFment.

OhHappyDay

Concerned, I am interested on this Thallyman quotes for myself. Please let me know if you find them.

concerned fiance

OhHappyDay, your advice is greatly appreciated and I agree that I should continue to show him my love and support and I pray that God will open his eyes.

Does anyone have the url address for the tallyman web page with quotes from JW's to fight them with?

I NEED ADVICE DESPERATELY!!!

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