Hi Blondie, as usual you've done a great job on the wt comments!
Here's what caught my eye...
Honorable Marriage-Legal Marriage
Q6, 7) Why should we be interested in the legal aspects of getting married, and how might we manifest this?
6) While Jehovah originated marriage, human governments have some control over the actions of those getting married. This is appropriate. Jesus said: "Pay back Caesar's things to Caesar, but God's things to God." (Mark 12:17) Similarly, the apostle Paul directed: "Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God." -Romans 13:1; Titus 3:1.
7) In most lands Caesar, or the civil authority, determines who is eligible to marry. Thus, when two Christians who are Scripturally free choose to get married, they conscientiously comply with local law. This may involve obtaining a license, using a State authorized marrying agent, and perhaps registering the completed marriage. When Caesar Augustus required a "registration," Mary and Joseph complied, traveling to Bethlehem "to get registered."-Luke 2:1-5.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"When Caesar Augustus required a "registration," Mary and Joseph complied, traveling to Bethlehem "to get registered."-Luke 2:1-" It should be noted this was a census not registration for marriage, no where in scripture is anyone required to register to marry.
When Jesus said, "Pay back Caesar's things to Caesar, but God's things to God." (Mark 12:17)
We need to ask ourselves, "What are Caesar's thing's?"
Is the marriage arrangement Caesar's "thing's" or God's?
Genesis 2:18-24 (The Message)
18-20 God said, "It's not good for the Man to be alone; I'll make him a helper, a companion." So God formed from the dirt of the ground all the animals of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the Man to see what he would name them. Whatever the Man called each living creature, that was its name. The Man named the cattle, named the birds of the air, named the wild animals; but he didn't find a suitable companion.
21-22 God put the Man into a deep sleep. As he slept he removed one of his ribs and replaced it with flesh. God then used the rib that he had taken from the Man to make Woman and presented her to the Man.
23-24 The Man said, "Finally! Bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh!
Name her Woman for she was made from Man."
Therefore a man leaves his father and mother and embraces his wife. They become one flesh."
~~~~~~~~~~
There's a maxim in law which say's "He who creates, controls"
Caesar did not create the institution of marriage, God did.
Does the above scripture show any involvement by Caesar, No, it does not, only the parents and God.
And considering Roman's 13...
Romans 13:1-3
(The Message)
1-3" Be a good citizen. All governments are under God. Insofar as there is peace and order, it's God's order. So live responsibly as a citizen. If you're irresponsible to the state, then you're irresponsible with God, and God will hold you responsible. Duly constituted authorities are only a threat if you're trying to get by with something. Decent citizens should have nothing to fear."
But are we to follow governments that don't follow God's law? (Like the Nazi's, Stalin and other's?)
Statutes and ordinances that are against God given unalienable Freedom's are not law, but color of law and void.
One should ask ...
If Paul were saying to obey Caesar as some would have you believe at Romans 13. Then why were Paul and the other follower's of Christ killed by Caesar? Were they not in subjection to the "superior authorities" and if they were not in subjection, (because the authorities killed them) why would we consider anything they wrote, because obviously they disobey God, right? Wrong!
Do we follow the "superior authorities"...Yes..." Insofar as there is peace and order, it's God's order." In other words if their laws are not against God's law and don't infringe on our God given unalienable Freedoms, then we follow them.
Here's a excerpt from an article about licensing, and some thoughts too consider.
No author listed...
Marriage "Licenses" are Unlawful!
Every year thousands of Christians amble down to their local county courthouse and obtain a from the State in order to marry their future spouse. They do this unquestioningly. marriage license They usually do it because their minister has told them to go get one, and besides, "everybody else gets one." This article attempts to answer the question - why should we not get one?
The legal definition of a "license" demands by all accounts, that we not obtain one to marry. Black's Law Dictionary defines "license" as, "The permission by competent authority to do an act which without such permission, would be illegal."
We need to ask ourselves- why should it be illegal to marry without the State's permission? More importantly, why should we need the State's permission to participate in something which God has ordained and commanded us to do (Gen. 2:18-24)? We do not need the State's permission to marry, nor should we grovel before state officials to seek it. What if you apply and the State says "no"?
You must understand that the authority to license implies the power to prohibit. A license by definition "confers a right" to do something. The State cannot grant the right to marry. Marriage is a God -given freedom.
When you marry with a marriage license, you grant the State jurisdiction over your marriage. When you marry with a marriage license, your marriage is a creature of the State. It is a corporation of the State - "legal fiction" entity by definition!! Therefore, they have jurisdiction over your marriage including the fruit of your marriage. What is the fruit of your marriage? Your children and every piece of property you own. There is plenty of case law in America and elsewhere which proves this to be true.
In one example, parents, married by state license were upset because a test was being administered to their children in the government schools which was very invasive of the family's privacy. When these parents complained, they were shocked by the school bureaucrats who informed them that their children were required to take the test by law because they (the government school) had jurisdiction over their children. When these parents asked the bureaucrats what gave them this jurisdiction, the bureaucrats answered, "your marriage license and their birth certificates."
Judicially, and in increasing fashion, practically, your state marriage license has far-reaching implications. Like the birth certificates, it effectively causes your children to become "legal chattel", or property of the state.
When you marry with a marriage license, you place yourself under and bind yourself to a body of law which is immoral, or anti-Christ. By obtaining a marriage license, you place yourself under the jurisdiction of Family Court which is governed by unbiblical and immoral laws. Under these artificial laws, you can divorce for any reason. Often, the courts side with the spouse who is in rebellion to God, and castigates the spouse who remains faithful by ordering him or her not to speak about the Bible or other matters of faith when present with the children.
No minister of God can in good conscience perform a marriage which would place people under this immoral body of laws, let alone marry someone with a marriage license, because to do so the minister must act as an agent of the State in direct opposition to God!! The minister is required to sign the marriage license, and mail it into the State. Given the State's demand to usurp the place of God and family regarding marriage, and given it's unbiblical, immoral laws to govern marriage, this would be an act of disobedience to God akin to treason.
The marriage license invades and removes God-given parental authority. When you read the Bible, you see that God intended for children to have their father's blessing regarding whom they married. Daughters were to be given in marriage by their fathers (Dt. 22:16; Ex. 22:17; I Cor. 7:38). We have a vestige of this in our culture today in that the father takes his daughter to the front of the altar and the minister asks, "Who gives this woman to be married to this man?"
Historically, there was no requirement to obtain a marriage license in colonial America, or most countries for that matter. When you read the laws of the colonies and then the states, you see only two requirements for marriage. First, you had to obtain your parent's permission to marry, and second, you had to post public notice of the marriage for 5-15 days before the ceremony.
Notice you had to obtain your parent's permission. Back then you saw godly government displayed in that the State recognized the parent's authority by demanding that the parent's permission be obtained. Today, the all-encompassing ungodly State demands that their [state's] permission be obtained to marry.
By issuing marriage licenses, the State is saying, "You don't need your parent's permission, you need our permission." If parents are opposed to their child's marrying a certain person and refuse to give their permission, the child can do an end-run around the parent's authority by obtaining the State's permission, and marry anyway. This is an invasion and removal of God -given parental authority by the State.
When you marry with a marriage license, you are like a polygamist. From the State's point of view, when you marry with a marriage license, you are not just marrying your spouse, but you are also marrying the State. Inasmuch as you have voluntarily conceded that the state's law supersedes God 's law, and the state law says categorically that you have contracted with them!
A blatant declaration of this fact may be found in many state brochures across the nation where people go to obtain their marriage licenses. The various State Bar Associations publish these. A common opening paragraph under the subtitle "Marriage Vows" states, "Actually, when you repeat your marriage vows you enter into a legal contract. There are three parties to that contract. 1.You; 2. Your husband or wife, as the case may be; and 3. the State of ?????."
See, the State and the lawyers know that when you marry with a marriage license, you are not just marrying your spouse, you are marrying the State! You are like a polygamist! You are not just making a vow to your spouse, but you are making a contractual vow to the State and your spouse, instead of to your spouse and to God, regardless of what you actually say in your oral vows! You are also giving undue jurisdiction to the State.
When Does the State Have Jurisdiction Over a Marriage? Never!
God intended His congregation to have jurisdiction over a marriage for two reasons - 1). in the case of divorce, and 2). When crimes are committed i.e., adultery, bigamy. etc. Unfortunately, the state-incorporated churches now allow divorce for any reason, and they do not prosecute for adultery, nor does the state, which has bound them so.
In either case, divorce or crime, a marriage license is not necessary for the congregation or courts to determine whether a marriage existed or not. What is needed are witnesses. This is why you have a best man and a maid of honor. They should sign the marriage certificate in your family Bible, and the wedding day guest book should be kept.
God instituted marriage, therefore it is a God -given freedom. According to Scripture, it is to be governed by the family, and the congregation, not the state, and the congregation only has jurisdiction in the cases of divorce or crime.
History establishes that George Washington was married without a marriage license. Abraham Lincoln was married without a marriage license. So, how did we come to this place in America and other countries where marriage licenses are issued?
Historically, all the states in America for example, had laws outlawing the marriage of blacks with whites. In the mid-1800's, certain states began allowing interracial marriages or miscegenation as long as those marrying received a license from the state. In other words they had to receive permission to do an act which without such permission would have been illegal.
Blacks Law Dictionary points to this historical fact when it defines "marriage license" as, "A license or permission granted by public authority to persons who intend to intermarry." "Intermarry" is defined in Black's Law Dictionary as, "Miscegenation; mixed or interracial marriages."
Not long after these licenses were first issued, some states began requiring all people who marry to obtain a marriage license, without regard to the true definition of the term. In 1923, the Federal Government established the Uniform Marriage and Marriage License Act (they later established the Uniform Marriage and Divorce Act). By 1929, every state in the Union had adopted marriage license laws. Most British Commonwealth countries followed similar paths, ending with the same result. Many of these laws changed because of the influence of the United Nations. (People should also realize that a "nation" be legal definition, is a "group of people that be law cannot own land"!)
Followers of Christ should not be marrying with State marriage licenses, nor should ministers be marrying people with State marriage licenses. Some may say to you, "If someone is married without a marriage license, then they aren't really married." Given the fact that states may soon legalize same-sex marriages, we need to ask ourselves, "If a man and a man marry with a State marriage license, and a man and woman marry without a State marriage license - who's really married? Is it the two men with a marriage license, or the man and woman without a marriage license, but with their parent's approval and God's blessing?
In reality, this contention that people are not really married unless they obtain a marriage license simply reveals how brainwashed we are in our thinking. We need to think biblically.
We do not have to obtain a license from the State to marry someone anymore than we have to obtain a license from the State to be a parent, which some in academic and legislative circles are currently pushing to be made into law.
When a couple marry, they should always obtain their own private Family Bible which contains birth and death records, and a record of marriage vows [certificate] that they complete themselves. They then record the marriage in that Family Bible. What's recorded in a Family Bible will stand up as legal evidence in any court of law in any country including America.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
More thoughts...
In 1884 law textbook Parsons on Contractswith this quote from the chapter "marriage is a contract": "since the State married them the children were fruits of the State."
How did you delegate to your servants the authority (Government) from wife contrary to: Mark 10:9, "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."
We know that we could not cancel our neighbor's vows to [God], so we know that divorce court could not cancel anyone's vows to [God].
How can you delegate the authority to bastardize your neighbors' children, when the authority does not originally reside within you?
It turns out that we did not delegate this authority. Apparently there are two meanings of the word 'marriage,' one meaning "holy matrimony" and the other refers to a status akin to corporate merger within the Government.
It should seem peculiar that people who have a right to get married would have to beg civil servants for permission (license = permission) to get married. We read in the 1877 U.S. Supreme Court decisions Meister v. Moore 96 US 80, that a marriage license was not required, nor do States confer the right to marry, and that marriage is based on contract.
This is consistent with the Bible, and it makes sense that the Supreme Court would confirm that this most sacred of family freedoms does not involve man-made Government.
Since your Constitution prohibits any State from impairing the obligation of contracts (U.S. Constitution, article 1, section 10) the sanctity of the family is safe from Government interference. Then we read in the 1888 US Supreme Court decision in Maynard v. Hill 8 SCt 723 125 US 190, where the Maynard's had intermarried in the State of Vermont (meaning they had a license) and that marriage was NOT based on contract but upon a status, and the Government could do whatever it wanted to do with the marriage because a State created the status of marriage.
Asking permission to get married is a voluntary, albeit unwitting confession that you do not know that you have a right to get married. By applying for a marriage license, you've waived your actual right to get married.
When the law says that the State cannot recognize a common law marriage, it doesn't mean your not married. It means the State cannot take your children nor divorce you. [God's] laws prevail. Your family is not part of their corporation. Your family does not have existence in the eyes of their laws.
Ignorance of the law is no excuse. You should have known (as did the Supreme Court in Murdock v. Pennsylvania 319 US 105) that "A state may not, through a license tax, impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the Federal Constitution."By paying for a marriage license, you confess that you did not have a right to get married. The power to tax is the power to destroy. What part of "let no man put asunder" do we not understand?"
How this comes about concerning the marriage license starts with being registered at birth, by a birth certificate making you a corporate entity by the Government.
God made the original marriage constitution of man as one pair, a male and female; as such by divine appointment; and to the purpose of
God, expressed by the sacred historian that in all time one man, one woman should by marriage become one flesh, so to continue as long as both are in the flesh. This being [
God 's] constitution, let not man break it up by causeless divorces (from Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary). Divorce may be legal according to man-made laws which ‘marry/incorporate’ two fictional ‘persons/corporate entities’, but it is not right according to
God's Law where marriage is an act between a man and his wife sanctioned by
God.
God expects couples to practice commitment to each other and remain true to each other. Too many people view divorce as an easy way out, and do not take seriously their covenant vow of commitment to each other, or to
God and his Christ, Jesus.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you belong to the State get your license, but if you belong to Christ, you might want to reconsider.
All who claim to be follower's of Christ do well to consider the implications of getting a license of any kind.
A license is permission from the State to do that, which is illegal in the eyes of the State, according to Black's law dictionary.
Does God consider Marriage illegal...you know the answer...
It all depends on who's authority you are under...God's or man's.
Peace
Acadian
