Bush's war on terrorism a failure?

by frankiespeakin 61 Replies latest jw friends

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    good monday to you six! :)

    I think you shortchange politics. I can't think of much good in this world that hasn't come about through politics.

    hmmm, interesting. i think i can partly agree with your idea here. i see politics as protecting some very good things, like freedom of expression. but i also see it as protecting some lame things too, like monsanto and haliburton.

    i would sure like to see some females in charge of the major world powers though, for a while. i'm getting tired of this penis extension/war machine stuff. ha ha!!

    peace bro,

    tetra

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    "but i also see it as protecting some lame things too, like monsanto and haliburton."

    Yep, as I said, the extremely wealthy are not going to do anything less than work hard and spend their extra cash to use politics to give themselves every business opportunity and advantage, fellow humans (and even the earth) be damned.

    It's up to everyone else to use politics to protect society and the planet from these extremely wealthy or rightwing or religous elements. It occurs to me, and frightens me a bit, to realize that frankiespeakin's words thoughts above are not really all that different from my christian friend who believes that a cataclysm must occur. I think we're all just frightened at the scale of the problems.

    I agree with you that it would be nice to see females as heads of state, but perhaps for different reasons. My reasons are mostly symbolic (I truly believe men and women are equal, and far more alike than different), I see little evidence that women are any less given to use of military power than men (if recent voting patterns in the USA are any indication).

    It looks like France may have a female head of state soon, and possibly even the US (though I personally think she's the wrong person at the wrong time, and has been on the wrong side of the Iraq fiasco from the start).

  • heathen
    heathen

    complete failure . It's to the point now where you'd have to approve of ethnic clensing to end this thing . I think the Bush administation was involved with 911 and are trying their best to undermine the constitution and civil liberties .Just check out Alex Jones at infowars .

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    tet, I just came across this on a blog I read, and thought it dovetails with this discussion, so I'm sharing a bit of it:

    <snip>

    On March 31, 1968, Martin had given his last Sunday sermon. He delivered the Passion Sunday sermon at the National Cathedral in Washington, DC. That speech was titled, "Remaining Awake Through a Great Revolution." While it is not as famous as his "I Have a Dream," "A Time to Break Silence (Beyond Vietnam)," or "I See the Promised Land" speeches, it remains one of his most important statements.

    "Remaining Awake …." speaks to us on many levels. Certainly Martin was speaking of Gandhi consciousness, a level of awareness reflected in his beginning the speak by making reference to the line from the Book of Revelations, Chapter 16: "Behold, I make all things new, former things are passed away." And he compares this awakening to the prolonged sleep described in Washington Irving’s classic, "Rip Van Winkle."

    King focused on an important, often forgotten part of the Rip Van Winkle tale. When he went off to sleep, he saw a picture of King George; when he woke up, there was a picture of George Washington. Rip Van Winkle did not recognize the first president, because he had slept through a Great Revolution.

    Martin reminded his audience that they were in a time of a Great Revolution, too. He called it a triple revolution, based upon the technology that had made the world a global community; the violence that threatened to destroy the world in a nuclear war; and the human rights campaign that was confronting racism and poverty.

    He quoted a John F. Kennedy saying twice: "Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind." He also quoted John Donne: "No man is an island entire of itself. Every man is a piece of the continent – a part of the main." He connected the price of the Vietnam War – the death of each enemy soldier cost the US tax-payers $500,000 – with the inability of the Johnson administration to make real the promise of LBJ’s Great Society.

    Great documents always hold that promise of great things to be done, Martin said, but it was up to mankind to accomplish those potentials. And he identified one of the enemies of those who wished to accomplish the good described in the Constitution, the Emancipation Proclamation, and other documents. That enemy "is the myth of time. …There are those who often sincerely say …., "Why don’t you slow up? Stop pushing things so fast. Only time can solve the problem. …..

    "There is an answer to that myth. It is that time is neutral. It can be used either constructively or destructively. And I am sorry to say this morning that I am absolutely convinced that the forces of ill will in our nation, the extreme rightists of our nation – the people on the wrong side – have used time much more effectively than the forces of good will. …. Somewhere we must come to see that human progress never rolls in on the wheels of inevitability."
    In "Martin Luther King, Jr.: The Making of a Mind" (Orbis Books; Maryknoll, NY; 1990), author John Ansbro focuses on King’s discussing how he combined the teachings of Jesus with the tactics of Gandhi. He quotes Martin as describing the Montgomery Boycott: "Gandhi was probably the first person in history to lift the loveethic of Jesus above mere interaction between individuals to a powerful and effective social force on a large scale." In a sermon at The Riverside Church in New York City in 1967, King said, "Christ showed us the way and Gandhi showed us it could work." And in "Stride Toward Freedom," King wrote about the form of Gandhi consciousness known as "satyagraha" – which means "holding on to Truth," or "Truth-force."

    Martin was planning to lead a Poor People’s Campaign in Washington, DC during the summer of 1968. He was prepared to challenge the power of the state, and to demand social justice. It was an intense plan, and it made many people nervous. Even some of Martin’s closest associates were opposed to it. They were even arguing about it during Martin’s last 24 hours on earth.

    On Passion Sunday, King told of a journalist asking him, "Don’t you think you’re going to have to stop, now, opposing the war and move more in line with the administration’s policy? As I understand it, it has hurt the budget of your organization and people who once respected you, have lost respect for you. Don’t you feel that you’ve really got to change your position?" And King that he was not a "consensus leader," and that he did not take Gallop polls to determine what his beliefs should be. Rather, he looked to be a molder of consensus.

    "On some positions," King said, "cowardice asks the question, is it expediant? And then expedience comes along and asks the question – is it politic? Vanity asks the question – is it popular? Conscience asks the question – is it right? There comes a time when one must take the position that is neither safe nor politic nor polite, but he must do it because conscience tells him it is right. … And I submit that nothing will get done until people of good will put their bodies and their souls in motion."

    Thirty-eight years later, we are facing many of the same problems that Martin confronted then. We have an immoral war in a distant land that we need to stop. It is keeping this country from becoming a Great Society, and not only because of the financial investments the Bush-Cheney administration has made. We need to be fully awake and fully aware of these connections.

    King was prepared to shut Washington down to protest this nation’s policies. Those of us who are advocating that Congress begin the investigations that should lead to impeachment are not looking to shut anything but executive corruption down. In fact, we are asking Americans to take the actions needed to make sure that Washington DC does work properly. We want to bring life to those great documents. We invite you to join us.

    Please write to Reps. Waxman and Conyers this week, and request that they investigate the lies that brought this nation to war in Iraq.

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    six,

    Somewhere we must come to see that human progress never rolls in on the wheels of inevitability."

    man, i totally agree with this. humans have to start consciously taking charge and creating their own world, instead of thinking that the world, and the powers that be, control(s) them.

    and when you are a member of the most materially powerful country on earth, politics is, of course, very important, because the rest of the world depends on people in that country helping the rest of the world out.

    and if the government one day said, "well, we think politics is retarded, and we are done with it. go in peace children of the light!" there would be hell to pay. for two reasons:

    1. the populace has not learned how to think for and manage themselves/earth. 2. there would be a line of war mongers ready to take over the pentagon.

    politics reek of insincerity, to me. but i agree, we need it right now.

    on the upside, i do think there is an overall trend towards liberalism ("liberty" has lost it's meaning), not just in politics either, over the course of the last 5000 years. so, we're headed in the right direction! more psychedelic drugs for descision makers! more evolutionary biology for children in school!

    big-ups!

    tetra

  • 5go
    5go

    Name one major act of terrorism in the United States since 9/11, then ask me that question. I don't agree with being in Iraq, but I will not agree that we have not done something to slow the terrorist down.

    How about that anthrax scare right after 9/11

  • 5go
    5go

    Name one major act of terrorism in the United States since 9/11, then ask me that question. I don't agree with being in Iraq, but I will not agree that we have not done something to slow the terrorist down.

    and the DC sniper.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Tet,

    on the upside, i do think there is an overall trend towards liberalism ("liberty" has lost it's meaning), not just in politics either, over the course of the last 5000 years. so, we're headed in the right direction! more psychedelic drugs for descision makers! more evolutionary biology for children in school!

    If they gave the president and other decision makers in both houses a psychedelic like "Ayahuasca" I think they would have a very bad trip (I use the words "bad trip" to mean uncomfortable only, but not in the sense of harmful to thier minds), it would no doubt force them to look at the badness of many of thier decisions, as Ayahuasca forces these things to the conscious mind with no escaping from them by shoving them into the unconscious, as we normally do. Bush would no doubt have visions of the holocoast he is causing in Iraq, which could make him change.

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    frankie,

    If they gave the president and other decision makers in both houses a psychedelic like "Ayahuasca" I think they would have a very bad trip (I use the words "bad trip" to mean uncomfortable only, but not in the sense of harmful to thier minds), it would no doubt force them to look at the badness of many of thier decisions, as Ayahuasca forces these things to the conscious mind with no escaping from them by shoving them into the unconscious, as we normally do. Bush would no doubt have visions of the holocoast he is causing in Iraq, which could make him change.

    ha! wicked! well, now i have an image in my head of bush down in the amazon in some shaman's hut doing an ayahuasca ceremony! what a site!

    but seriously, i believe in the power of psychedelic drugs as a catalyst for introspection, and to subdue the ego, if not kill it out right. it may not be good for everyone, but i think politicians should take them (whatdaya think six?, lol)....

    imo, there is no such thing as a bad trip. people may call them bad trips, because they have a lot of psychological baggage they are unaware of that comes up, but anything that makes you grow as a person is a positive thing.

    although, i think bush could do with some evolutionary biology too! lol!

    have you ever done dmt?

    tetra

    ps: incidentally, i heard that all CIA agents had to (have to?) do lsd in case they were ever fed it unknowingly, which means that george bush senior has done it. not sure if this is an urban legend or not though.

  • free2beme
    free2beme

    5go

    Those examples border on pathetic. Sniper = serial killer. Anthrax scare???? Was 9/11 the Twin Tower scare? Show me one major act of terrorism since 9/11. Don't show me things that you think are major acts of terrorism, and are not. Like it or not, and I personally like it, this country has not had a repeat of 9/11. As much as you can dislike the war, which I do too, you can not show me an example of anything even half as bad as 9/11 since 9/11. Don't fool yourself into thinking, it was not for lack of trying by terrorist. Not everyone in the office of Homeland security is an idiot like our fearless leader. They know what they are watching and doing.

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