Why Jehovah's Witness do not want to see the flaws within the religion

by The wanderer 22 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  The wanderer

  Why Jehovah's Witness do not want to see the flaws within the religion

  A friend's thread inspired this topic of discussion because it was about
  a week or two weeks ago that this conversation came up during a re-
  cent telephone call.

  The Jehovah's Witnesses perspective on the matter

  On a number of occasions, I recall getting into arguments with my
  best friend in the organization; in particular if I raised questions
  about the organization.

  Looking back in retrospect, his emotional feelings at times
  often blocked out his reasoning intelligence. It is tremendously
  hard for an individual to admit that he or she is being duped,
  fooled or misled.

  To honestly evaluate

  To step back and honestly evaluate that you do not have
  the "truth" after having studied, taught, and believing
  it was for years—is no easy venture.
  
  And, so, at times, I can understand why an individual would
  become stubborn regarding this admission. Because such
  an admission can become a life shattering event.

  Questions to Consider

  1. How can you reason or show a Jehovah's Witness
     that there religion is wrong without it becoming
     an emotional contest?

  2. How did you separate your emotions from your
     intellect to arrive at your present conclusions
     regarding the organization?

  ---

  Please add your commentary and
  perspective on the matter so that
  all can learn.

  Respectfully,

  The Wanderer

  
  
  
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  done4good

  1. How can you reason or show a Jehovah's Witness
     that there religion is wrong without it becoming
     an emotional contest?

  2. How did you separate your emotions from your
     intellect to arrive at your present conclusions
     regarding the organization?

  I'll answer these in reverse order. I was only able to make a successful "separation" of intellect and emotion concerning the organization only after enough tough lessons in life taught me that what I was being taught just didn't seem "right". Not that I didn't have doubts about many things long before that, as I assuradly did, it's was a matter of coming to a point in life where I just began to "know" WITHOUT even realizing it. At that point of really "knowing" something was wrong, only then could I begin to look objectively at the facts.

  So to answer the first question, reasoning with a true believing jw is ALMOST impossible, unless they themselves have already come to certain conclusions within. I pick and choose carefully those jws that I intend to present any conclusions to. IF they appear "ready", due to marital failure, disfellowshipped loved one, etc, then it is quite easy to present facts, without fear of being shut out.

  j
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  AK - Jeff

  How did you separate your emotions from your
  intellect to arrive at your present conclusions
  regarding the organization?

  For me - though this took place on a sub-level for years I believe, it was a cognitive realization that 'Facts' do not comprise 'Truth'. It was not an awareness, at first of flaws in the religion, but a failure to see them in action. When I read the Bible accounts of Jesus in particular, I saw a depth of love and concern for people that I had never seen reflected in the organization. When questioning such failings, the common defense was 'imperfection'. Imperfection denoted to me a flawed being - not a cruel and excusing one.

  Conversely - anything done by religious organizations outside the dubs was 'automatically' of no value - yet the good works done by them could not be denied in many areas. I often thought back to the words of James ' Faith without works is dead ' , and though the understanding put forth changed the 'works' to strictly 'preaching', I could not help but wonder why these other works did not count toward God.

  Personally, I believe that most people will not leave until they experience a 'significant emotional experience' that shifts their pardigm just enough to begin to let them evaluate. My first such experience was way back in 1981 - it took another 20 years before I really put it together.

  Jeff
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  moshe

  It took a crisis of conscience to do it- three times, no less. #1- 1975- it came and went and it was our fault for being disappointed. #2- 1980-reversal of organ transplant ban- and no apology from the Governing Body. #3- 1985- I had seen no major decrease in partakers at the Memorial since I jointed in 1972.- Just like Chinese water torture, these issues of failed doctrine and changing dogma took their toll, until I finally broke free of the WT mental bondage in 1988. I would wonder why any JW stays in longer than 15-20 years. Surely, that amount of time is sufficient for cumulative WT mistakes to wake a person up. Why do they stay in the Org?- Family/spousal loyalty or fear , they have stubborn personal pride and perhaps, mental weaknesses are three good reasons that I can think of, Why JW's never leave the WT Organization.
• 

  jaguarbass

  1. How can you reason or show a Jehovah's Witness
     that there religion is wrong without it becoming
     an emotional contest?

  2. I dont reason with Jehovahs witnesses. Ive lived long enough to realize that there on some things in this life that you just dont do. Also I've been out of the organization long enough,83, that I know longer have the confrontational., argumentative, know it all spirit of the jw's. Its not my duty in life to have everyone think like me or straighten everyones thinking out. I'm kind of like a budhist in that regard I believe when the student is ready the teacher will appear. Most likely the teacher wont be me.

  3. How did you separate your emotions from your
     intellect to arrive at your present conclusions
     regarding the organization? You make it a mathmatical equation I over e i/e when the e gets over the I you have trouble. I would have settled for the jws to be correct, for me to have the answers to life but 1975 opened my eyes. If they had gods spirit, if they were gods prophet, gods spokesman they wouldnt have prophecied falsely end of story. If you want to read the long version they have a history of false phrophecy. There is a sucker born every minute and I spent my time as their sucker. Now the rest of my life belongs to me. Thats the gift that it is.

  4. Also intelectually I have examined the bible reading it from cover to cover 5 times and making notes and studying it independently. It is a hodge podge book of contradictions .Sorry to rain on any bodys parade but if you dont believe me just google bilble contradictions. I hope you have a lot of time to look them all up. Everybodys out to make a buck in this world. Thats what the Jws at the top are doing. Some jobs are easier than others. Sitting in AC in Brooklyn throwing curv balls to keep the sheeple in line is easier than flipping burgers or diggin a ditch. It goes right down the line. I realize now that when I was growing up in the 60's that the leaders in my congregation were car salesman and insurance salesman. They didnt even have to believe the baloney back then no wonder thier kids were going to college while I was pioneering. They were just using the organization for business to make sales. Go try to get a job selling cars or insurance thats what theyll teach you. Join an organization to find customers.
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  inlove

  What can I add to these comment, I feel like my comments are weak in comparision. All I know is that belief systems are routed deeply and shape a what a person thinks about themself. My husband loves God deeply, unfortunately he has put his faith in a false religion and I think he feels that God has let him down. In is him mind it is better to cling to false beliefs, than to admit he was wrong. Where do you go after being JW. It's like God has foresaken you!
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  jaguarbass

  Where do you go after being JW. It's like God has foresaken you!

  Hello Inlove, welcome. You go where ever you want when you leave the witnesses. You are free. Life is the journey not the destination. Live each day as though it were your last. Have no regrets. If you dont value your life and time, then I guess it would make no sense to leave the Jw's. I left the organization 23 years ago and I have no regrets, just more free time which I cherish. I've explored the world of ideas and ideologies. I would think most concious people who live long enough end up thinking God has forsaken them regardless of their religious affiliations. Personal loss, sickness tragedies loss of loved ones. Thats the human condition that religion profits from.
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  moshe

  It's like God has foresaken you!-

  What do you think the Jews who survived the Holocaust felt like when they were liberated from the prison camps? And yet, they went on with their life.

  Six million dead in the Holocaust, and all of them prayed for freedom and life.. --- Leaving the KH with your life reasonably intact should be no problem compared to that.
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  jayhawk1

  Wanderer,

  When you talk on the phone do you visualize your words coming out of your mouth in a similar creepy Watchtower-like format that is similar to your posts?

  Smile, I had to ask...
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  uwishufish

  Too many questions.

  Reads like Questions From Readers.