Discussion of "intelligent design" (uncapitalized, AlanF)

by AuldSoul 153 Replies latest members adult

• 

  frankiespeakin

  I think everything that exist is manifest by Intelligence (my opinion).

  Can it be proven or disproven either way? Well I guess it all boils down to what limits you give to the meaning of the word Intelligence. Perhaps if we limit the meaning of intelligence to that of something like we see manifest in a human mind, and transpose it to some person or persons of a higher realm of existence with a mind or minds, even this limited use of the word, it still can't be proven or disproven. But what if we broaden the meaning of intelligence?

  How about we use the word Intelligence without these limitations, after all it is immaterial, you can't grab it with your hand or touch it. What if we do away with the need for a "mind" thinking thoughts, in our use of the word Intelligence? Like the way an electron behaves could we not say that this is the intelligence of the electron? Or the way photon behave could we say that this is the intelligence of the photon? Can anyone say this is not true? It is all opinion,in the same way we can niether prove or disprove "intelligent design". It's all just opinion.

  Now in the case of some mythical god like the one in the bible, as the actual intelligence that created everything, the proof is in, he is just a myth.
• 

  AuldSoul

  Terry: We are dealing with preferences in how we choose to explain our value as end products.

  I am making an exception in your case, and responding to someone other than AlanF on this thread. I believe we can with absolute certainty (a rarity) state we are not the end products. On this point, both evolutionists and the majority of the worlds religionists (which are not mutually exclusive) wholeheartedly agree.

  As to whether there is extraterrestrial life, one need not be a Creationist or believer in the Bible to be firmly convinced of that. One need only examine the likeliest source of the mythos from the majority of the world's advanced civilizations. From the Egyptian gods, to the Greek and Roman pantheon, to the Aztec and Mayan civilizations, we see rampant indications of ancient peoples exposed to advanced technology in their descriptions of the actions of their Gods and Goddesses.

  There is incredibly strong testimony available to prove that this is not an exclusively ancient phenomenon. From a retired commander of nuclear silo batteries testifying that when the silo battery was brought to Ready during an elevated level of alert and object appeared at the gates and the missiles shut down in sequence while still in the silos (the commander reported that a silo battery 60 miles away experienced the exact same scenario), a scientist responsible for devolping and testing ICBM's who presents testimony of observing an ICBM shot out of the sky in the 1960s by a craft that approached the ICBM and matched speed and trajectory while firing at it, eyewitness testimony from military personnel at every rank and station including a Brigadier General, Ret., there is video footage of radar contacts (accompanied by visual confirmation from pilots) that reportedly were triangulating sightings from three separate radar posts of stationary craft that moved, within an instant, a few dozen miles only to remain stationary in a new position.

  These are not the sort of people who are noted for their lack of mental capacity. In fact, many of these people are put through incredibly rigorous psychological evaluations to determine fitness for service at their posts and for receipt of various security clearances. They are of unquestionably sound mind.

  Much that is mythos can now be explained by current technologies or by technologies that we can now conceive to be possibly within our grasp. Once upon a time, for instance, the idea that a woman could conceive child without intercourse was ludicrous, or that something other than just a man could conceivably be born from a woman. Now, we know for certain that genetic manipulation and impregnation without intercourse is entirely possible. The technology did not exist when Buddha was conceived, however. Nor did it exist when Jesus was conceived.

  A golden shower announces the appearance of Zeus in Diana's bed chambers. Jesus appears inside a locked room. The Greek Pantheon of Gods and Goddesses could assume many forms and likenesses, even the appearance of beasts.

  And always, in every advanced civilization's mythos, are the ever-present flying crafts.

  The ubiquitous appearance of these in mythos is not, cannot be, by accident.

  We know we are not the end product.

  Terry: Creation makes us a singularity, and; the most important of all singularities.

  But, intelligent design does not necessarily do so, does it? In fact, instead of telling us that we have come as far as man will, intelligent design may well tell us how much further we have to go.

  Terry: We never think of ourselves as a mere link in an ongoing chain.

  Humanity might not, but I do. I never met humanity, so I can't presume to speak for it.
• 

  SixofNine

  "The language of science is math. All else is metaphor which gets everybody bogged down in ridiculous discussion."

  *ahem* good point.

  I wonder what "end product" could possibly be a metaphor phor?
• 

  Narkissos

  It has also been suggested that all language construction, including math, ultimately rests on a metaphorical basis...

  http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/WhosCounting/story?id=98071&page=1
• 

  Narkissos

  One need only examine the likeliest source of the mythos from the majority of the world's advanced civilizations. (etc.)

  LOL.

  I rarely venture into science, but sometimes I am amazed at the naïveté of a scientific mind's approach to religious literature. A UFO behind every god eh?

  Long live Raël & co.
• 

  hillary_step

  Auld Soul,

  As to whether there is extraterrestrial life, one need not be a Creationist or believer in the Bible to be firmly convinced of that. One need only examine the likeliest source of the mythos from the majority of the world's advanced civilizations. From the Egyptian gods, to the Greek and Roman pantheon, to the Aztec and Mayan civilizations, we see rampant indications of ancient peoples exposed to advanced technology in their descriptions of the actions of their Gods and Goddesses.

  Oh dear.......

  HS
• 

  Terry

  I believe we can with absolute certainty (a rarity) state we are not the end products.

  Yes, we can state it. We cannot eliminate the contigency we are in error in asserting the absolute.

  Survival depends on making judgements. In the wild there is little/no time to Q & A endlessly allowing for other viewpoints. Survival often requires snap judgement. Seeing things in a constant state of black or white is survival oriented for animals.

  Humanity has become socially accustomed to less urgent circumstances. Yet, the black and white absolute mindset is still there.

  Personally, I am now only comfortable with expressing my ignorance of things in place of a lifelong tendency to assert mastery where there was only presupposition of my premises.

  You see, we all tend to base our conclusions on our presuppositions no matter how careful we are.

  When science has been most productive and effective it has used a methodology which tests conclusions against premises.

  Even scientists fall victim to the desire to see their premises end in proofs positive. Whenever this happens the non-scientists gloat accordingly.

  I don't know how completely accurate the model for evolution matches reality. I bring my own ignorance and presuppositions to any tentative ruling. As do we all.

  If I emotionally need it to go one way or the other I'm sure it will.

  Any of us not trained to act otherwise would do so too.

  In the final analysis none of us here can do more than joust AS THOUGH we are debating facts. I think it is likely we are actually doing something less cut and dried. I think we are trading blows using presuppositions as clubs.

  Let me give you a ragged analogy, if I may.

  I watched a TV commercial the other day advertising HIGH DEFINITION TV.

  I was watching on an ANALOG screen with an ordinary broadcast.

  The commercial showed a HI-DEF TV with an image on it which was asserted to be HIGH DEFINITION and superior in every way to my own analog TV screen.

  Now, I have to ask you----is it possible I can SEE the difference using my analog screen? Why, no!

  I have to assume the High-Definition broadcast being depicted on my analog screen is superior in every way by relying entirely on anecdotal testimony by the announcer and the smiling faces of the people in the commercial.

  Looking at the details of evolution, science, mathematics without a degree in those subjects is like watching a High-Definition TV commercial using an analog tv screen.

  You can't really SEE the difference and you might not want to invest in a very expensive investment to test the veracity of the commercial's claims. You might just decide you are happy enough with what you already have.

  I think a lot of people end up doing that when challenged by claims of something OTHER than what they already possess as "facts".

  Belief is not proof.

  They wouldn't call it belief it were proof.

  Operating your mind without proof is like driving blindfolded. Occasionally you will bump into things that hurt.
• 

  ackack

  Narkissos:LOL. I rarely venture into science, but sometimes I am amazed at the naïveté of a scientific mind's approach to religious literature. A UFO behind every god eh? Long live Raël & co.

  I'm pretty sure you meant to say pseudo-scientific. :)

  ackack
• 

  Caedes

  It has also been suggested that all language construction, including math, ultimately rests on a metaphorical basis...

  http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/WhosCounting/story?id=98071&page=1

  Interestingly they got Euler's equation wrong in that piece its e to the power of (i times pi) etc

  I can imagine that some people were getting a bit worried about that.

  Apologies this thing still doesn't like my equation editor
• 

  myelaine

  dear king Agrippa...

  ...I would to God that not only you, but also all who hear me today, might become both almost and altogether such as I am, except for these chains...Acts 26:29

  love michelle