Allowed blood products by %, from KM 06, how can a JW not see thru this

by jwfacts 47 Replies latest watchtower medical

• 

  xjwms

  Thanks for this......

  I will print the chart.

  .
• 

  Jourles

  Easy question to ask(hopefully it'll kick start their brain into thinking logically) ---

  • Are the four [prohibited] "primary components" of blood medically equal to blood itself?

  Notice that we would want them to answer from a medical viewpoint rather than a biblical one. They should of course say "No" to the above question. But if they answer in the affirmative, ask them to prove it - or better yet, have them ask their doctor the same question and see what response they get. Either way, they will not like the correct answer because it will conflict with the WTS definition.

  But on the other hand, if they take the true JW stance and say something along the lines of, "We are not interested in how the medical community defines the different blood components, but rather, we strictly follow what the bible says on the matter.", then they are in an even bigger pickle. Simply ask them to show you from the bible where it clearly states that the four primary components are equal to blood. Once they heehaw around that one, ask them where the idea of the four primary components even came from. After they have trouble answering that question, offer them a clue - the medical community?

  The point of all this is to confuse the hell out of them. Twist their brain up into a pretzel. It's not confusing to a normal person, but to a brainwashed jw, this easy and simple logic will send their head into a tailspin. Hopefully it will just make them think on their own.
• 

  jwfacts

  I have tidied up the chart, and done a second one with more history of the changes. I think these could be sent to brothers at the hall to help explain the current stand. If the bottom questions are removed it will not even look apostate.
• 

  Terry

  I would compare this to Sexual prohibitions.

  You cannot commit fornication or you will be shunned and disfellowshipped.

  That is absolute.

  However, anything short of intercourse can be called "loose conduct".

  Imagine breaking down intercourse into fractional behaviors and allowing one's own conscience to determine what's what!

  As I have repeated often in various posts over time, it is my conviction that the Watchtower has deliberately CONFUSED the discussion about blood in ACTS to blur the actual meaning of the controversy.

  The Noahide Laws were what was being debated. The mention of "abstain from blood" did not ever mean transfusion. It referenced BLOOD SHED or MURDER. It was the mention of "things strangled" which actually indicated the blood issue.

  Going back to the analogy of SEX and BLOOD transfusion; Jesus indicated that thinking about sexual intercourse was THE SAME as doing it. While I think this is warped and ludicrous, it demonstrates that it would be parallel in the case of THINKING ABOUT TRANSFUSING BLOOD. It is the moral equivalent: breaking down blood into parts and declaring the parts to be okay, but, not the fusion of the parts.

  This is what Pharisees were good at; parsing and parsing and parsing to explicate the LAW. Are Christians really under law?????
• 

  jwfacts

  The Noahide Laws were what was being debated. The mention of "abstain from blood" did not ever mean transfusion. It referenced BLOOD SHED or MURDER. It was the mention of "things strangled" which actually indicated the blood issue.

  Very interesting Terry, I remember reading your post on this, but missed the point.

  Am I correct to parrallel the following

  Genesis 8:20- 9:7 with Lev 17:1-18:27 with Acts 15:28

  (Genesis 8:20) 20 And Noah began to build an altar to Jehovah

  No idolatry

  (Genesis 9:1) . . .Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth. . .

  No fornication

  (Genesis 9:4) 4 Only flesh with its soul—its blood—YOU must not eat.. . .

  This is quite plainly not related to abstaining from blood, but from things strangled (a soul with its blood)

  (Genesis 9:6) 6 Anyone shedding man’s blood, by man will his own blood be shed. . .

  Murder.
• 

  rebel8

  However since medical science is finding more and more ways to fractionate blood and more and more uses for these "New" fractions, the JW's have had to adapt.

  I understand & agree with your point TD, but I want to point something out to lurkers......

  • Blood fractions have been around for decades. Yes, there have been recent advances, but the wts' use of "recent advances" does not come anywhere close to excusing their horrible acts. They should have come to the conclusion about the "new light" when blood fractions were first invented, not recently!
  • The wts has a long history of waivering on their rule about blood fractions, as many have pointed out.
  • Persons with severe bleeding disorders in the 1970s--me, for example--were NOT allowed to take clotting factor. Clotting factor is considered a medication derived from a small fraction of human blood, and has been for decades (no recent change). This was published in the wts literature.
  • Crisis of Conscience tells of hemophiliacs being outraged after the rule being published, and the wts changing their tune quickly. They didn't bother to print a retraction--I guess they felt avoiding embarassment was more important than the life of jws. Instead, they assigned people at bethel to call up any hemophiliacs they knew and tell them they could take a small dose of clotting factor once in their life. Problem 1: Hemophiliacs need much more than one lifetime dose to stay alive and well. Problem 2: They didn't know all the jws who had severe bleeding disorders, so most of us didn't get a call and continued following the bogus rule.
  • People with severe bleeding disorders who don't take clotting factor are at risk of imminent death and disability. For example, hemophiliacs who do not treat internal bleeding have permanent problems with their internal organs, bones, and joints--which are deformed because of excess blood inside, and causes intolerable, excrutiating pain. Requiring a severe hemophiliac to not take clotting factor is sentencing him to a wheelchair and early death. Period. No way around that. Persons with bleeding disorders less severe than that may be lucky enough to have consequences less severe than that.
• 

  rebel8

  Reposting this from one of Blondie's previous posts. The guy in the last story is either telling a very scrubbed version of the truth or he has a mild form of Hemophilia A.

  ***g752/22p.30WatchingtheWorld***

  Hemophilia

  TreatmentHazard

  · Certain clotting "factors" derived from blood are now in wide use for the treatment of hemophilia, a disorder causing uncontrollable bleeding. However, those given this treatment face another deadly hazard: the Swiss medical weekly SchweizerMedWochenschrift reports that almost 40 percent of 113 hemophiliacs studied had cases of hepatitis. "All these patients had received whole blood, plasma, or blood derivatives containing [the factors]," notes the report. Of course, true Christians do not use this potentially dangerous treatment, heeding the Bible’s command to ‘abstain from blood.’—Acts 15:20, 28, 29.

  But only three years later, new light dawned:

  ***w786/15pp.30-31QuestionsfromReaders***

  What, however, about accepting serum injections to fight against disease, such as are employed for diphtheria, tetanus, viral hepatitis, rabies, hemophilia and Rh incompatibility? This seems to fall into a ‘gray area.’ Some Christians believe that accepting a small amount of a blood derivative for such a purpose would not be a manifestation of disrespect for God’s law; their conscience would permit such. (Compare Luke 6:1-5.) Others, though, feel conscientiously obliged to refuse serums because these contain blood, though only a tiny amount. Hence, we have taken the position that this question must be resolved by each individual on a personal basis. We urge each one to strive to have a clear conscience and to be responsive to God’s guidance found in His Word.—Ps. 119:105.

  ***

  g826/22p.25Jehovah’sWitnesses—TheSurgical/EthicalChallenge***

  Jehovah’s Witnesses accept medical and surgical treatment. In fact, scores of them are physicians, even surgeons. But Witnesses are deeply religious people who believe that blood transfusion is forbidden for them by Biblical passages such as: "Only flesh with its soul—its blood—you must not eat" (Genesis 9:3-4); "[You must] pour its blood out and cover it with dust" (Leviticus 17:13-14); and "Abstain from . . . fornication and from what is strangled and from blood" (Acts 15:19-21). 1

  While these verses are not stated in medical terms, Witnesses view them as ruling out transfusion of whole blood, packed RBCs, and plasma, as well as WBC and platelet administration. However, Witnesses’ religious understanding does not absolutely prohibit the use of components such as albumin, immune globulins, and hemophiliac preparations; each Witness must decide individually if he can accept these. 2

  2 TheWatchtower 1978;99 (June 15):29-31.

  Watchtower Experience

  ***

  g876/22pp.21-24MyLifeWithHemophilia ***

  My

  LifeWithHemophilia

  I WAS born in St. Petersburg, Florida, in 1949. About six months later my parents became concerned after my uncle had picked me up, tossed me into the air, and caught me. To everyone’s surprise, I got little bruises along my rib cage where his fingers and hands grabbed me as I came down.

  My parents took me to the doctor to find out what was wrong. Tests revealed that I had hemophilia, which is a deficiency in the blood-clotting cycle. The most severe deficiency is the one I have, the classical A-type. I lack what is called Factor 8, which is the clotting factor that binds all the other factors together to make a good strong clot. In my case, my blood makes a good clot, but it is fragile. It breaks apart easily; often the mere pressure of blood flowing through the wound destroys the clot that starts to build up. Prolonged bleeding is the result.

  Constant

  Bruising

  As a child, the simplest things would cause a bruise. Once I sat down on my alphabet blocks, and the corresponding bruise carried the letter from the block! I can remember waking up in the middle of the night with severe pains caused by bleeding in my joints or abdominal organs. Finally, at the age of six, my doctor felt that it was necessary for me to have a transfusion of whole blood to stop a bleeding incident. That was the first of over 900 transfusions I received in my life.

  Most of my problems have been from internal bleeding. I really haven’t had that many external cuts that caused a problem. However, there was a crisis one day when my mother left me alone in the car for a few minutes while she stepped into a store. She had earlier purchased a package of double-edged razor blades and some groceries. Well, sitting in the car, I decided to find out why they are called double-edged. There was quite a stir when I ran into the store with both forefingers dripping blood!

  MySecondHome—TheHospital

  For many years I spent much time in my home away from home—the hospital—receiving transfusions to stop bleeding episodes. Progress has been slow in changing this procedure. Yet, the medical community has learned to separate blood down to its different components. So now instead of whole blood, one small factor of blood may be utilized to treat hemophilia. This enables the doctors to reduce the volume of transfused material, thereby not giving the individual a lot of material that he really doesn’t need.

  While in grade school, I was not allowed to participate in recess activities. Since I couldn’t play with the other kids, I often played with just the teacher. When I was in third grade, a teacher rolled a ball to me, and when I kicked it back to her, my ankle began to hemorrhage. I spent the next six weeks in a wheelchair.

  On another occasion a hemorrhage in my knee put me in a wheelchair for almost three years with full hip-to-heel braces. It was a very traumatic time in my life. When I was able to walk, I had to wear full leg braces. But after a while the braces actually put more strain on my knees than when I didn’t wear them. After three years I had had enough. I took the braces off and proceeded to go without them—in typical teenage fashion!

  I still continued to have hemorrhages in various joints of my body—elbows, fingers, knees, ankles, and wrists. Treatment for these problems meant going to the hospital, where I gradually got to know the entire hospital staff on a first-name basis. Most were very kind and understanding. The especially trying hours were late at night, after everyone else went to sleep and there was nothing left to watch on television. I was left alone with my pain.

  CollegeandMarriage

  After high school my parents made arrangements for me to go to college, which was difficult for them because of the financial burden of caring for a hemophiliac. However, my grades were good enough for me to qualify for a few small scholarships. So off I went to the University of Miami to study marine biology. I started spending more and more time in the campus infirmary and a local Miami hospital.

  The third day at college I met a girl named Leslie. I regretted having to tell her about my hemophilia, for I felt she wouldn’t be interested in me because of my problems. Obviously, I didn’t know her very well because she felt there was more to me than my problems. Leslie helped me with my studies when I missed class, and in 1968 we were married. We moved off campus, and while Leslie worked, I attended my sophomore year. But things became more and more difficult physically, until I had to drop out of school because of the pain in my knees and shoulders.

  After I left school, we moved to Winter Haven, Florida, where our first child, John, was born in 1969. Shortly thereafter we returned to St. Petersburg, where our second son, Kenneth, was born in October 1977. Happily, neither of the boys could inherit hemophilia from me.

  ALife-or-DeathDecision

  After arriving back in St. Petersburg, Leslie and I worked selling cookware. One evening, to demonstrate the cookware, I prepared a dinner for my mother’s neighbor who, unknown to me, had just been baptized as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. All her guests for the cookware demonstration were also Witnesses. Thereafter, as I called on her guests to sell them cookware, each of them would talk to me about the Bible. As a result of these conversations, I learned that the Witnesses do not accept blood transfusions. I told them that I thought that would be a most difficult course for a hemophiliac.

  About a year later a Witness couple called at our home, and I agreed to have them study the Bible with me. As I looked into the Scriptures more closely, I became convinced that I really was learning the truth. But I would have to face an important decision: what to do about the blood issue.

  I was still receiving blood transfusions. But how could I possibly give them up, since they were purportedly keeping me alive? If anything happened to me, what would become of my wife and my little son, our first, who was then just one and a half years old? Where would they go? Who would take care of them? In my heart I knew the right thing to do. But all these questions perplexed me for a while.

  After my Bible study one evening, I asked the Witness who conducted the study with me: "Do you realize that I will probably die if I stop receiving transfusions?"

  "Yes, John, I realize that," he quietly responded.

  "Will you take care of my family if I die?"

  He promised that he would see to it that they were taken care of if because of keeping integrity to Jehovah on the blood issue I were to die. However, he stressed that I should know exactly what I was doing and make sure that when I made a dedication to Jehovah I meant it and would stick to it.

  One night I was on my way to get a transfusion when I realized that I still had not yet proved my integrity to Jehovah. I drove back home. Thus, November 6, 1970, was the last time I accepted a transfusion, and to this date in 1987 I have gone without any transfusions! I was baptized as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in July 1971, and my wife Leslie was baptized in March 1972.

  SixMonthstoLive?

  The original estimate was that I would only live about six months, since I would surely have a serious problem and the doctors would not be able to stop the bleeding. How happy I am that they were wrong!

  Within six months of taking my stand, though, my faith was put to the test. I had a particularly painful experience with a shoulder hemorrhage. My old hospital refused to treat me unless I agreed to let them give me a transfusion if necessary. I refused. With the help of local Witnesses, I found a hospital and staff willing to respect my wishes.

  When I stopped getting transfusions, my wife and I started a treatment plan of our own: elastic bandages; ice packs; immobilization; bed rest when necessary; pain medication; and when the pain was too severe to handle, temporary hospitalization. This has worked reasonably well over the years. Oh, there has been continued deterioration of the joints that are subject to frequent hemorrhages, my knees and shoulders in particular.

  "SomeoneUpThereMustLikeYou!"

  About the middle of 1978, I had what proved to be one of the most trying experiences of my life. I developed a hemorrhage in a kidney. Of course, the older I get, the more severe these things can be and, without transfusions, even more serious. Naturally, you can’t wrap a kidney in an elastic bandage or immobilize it from performing its normal functions. The prognosis was not good.

  Normal red blood cell (hemoglobin) count is between 14 and 16, and usually I am about 16. But during the next two weeks my count dropped below five! As the next few days passed, the doctors urged me to consider the possible consequences of not taking blood. If I waited too long, they were sure I would die.

  For obvious reasons, I have been very close to the medical profession all my life. I have grown to appreciate that most of them are well-meaning. They don’t want to lose a life if they think they can save it. It was hard for them to understand my position on the blood issue.

  While I was in the hospital, I received a letter informing me that I had been assigned my first part on the next circuit assembly of Jehovah’s Witnesses. How my spirits soared! Within 24 hours my hemoglobin count leveled off. This was the first indication that the bleeding had stopped. Then the doctor came back and told me: "In about a week or ten days, when your hemoglobin count gets up to ten, we will send you home." Well, within three or four days it was high enough for me to go home.

  Over the next few weeks, on follow-up visits, the doctor mentioned that he had learned a new way to treat hemophiliacs—"to wait." He added: "Someone up there must like you!"

  Since that time—except for the occasion in 1981 when I was laid up for six weeks with a hemorrhage in my right knee—my health has remained fairly constant. I do continue to have bleeding episodes that confine me to bed for several days or even weeks, but these pass, and I am able to resume most activities.

  With my beloved wife and two sons, I look forward to many more years to come. But whatever happens, I feel certain that I have done what any Christian must do—obey Jehovah whether it seems to be the easy thing to do or not. Some day medical science may develop an artificial clotting factor. But my real hope is in Jehovah’s righteous new system wherein all will enjoy perfect health. (Isaiah 33:24; Revelation 21:3, 4)—AstoldbyJohnA.Wortendyke.

  [Footnotes]

  For a discussion of the Scriptural view of accepting this blood factor, please see our companion magazine, TheWatchtower, the issues of June 15, 1978, pages 30 and 31, and June 1, 1974, pages 351 and 352.
• 

  Zico

  Abstaining from blood is mentioned in the main bible study book 'What does the bible really teach?' so they don't seem to be fading it out yet.
• 

  Terry

  Very interesting Terry, I remember reading your post on this, but missed the point.

  Am I correct to parrallel the following

  Genesis 8:20- 9:7 with Lev 17:1-18:27 with Acts 15:28

  (Genesis 8:20) 20 And Noah began to build an altar to Jehovah

  No idolatry

  (Genesis 9:1) . . .Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth. . .

  No fornication

  (Genesis 9:4) 4 Only flesh with its soul—its blood—YOU must not eat.. . .

  This is quite plainly not related to abstaining from blood, but from things strangled (a soul with its blood)

  (Genesis 9:6) 6 Anyone shedding man’s blood, by man will his own blood be shed. . .

  Murder.

  Just to cover the bare basics....

  Noah was before any law given to Israel as a part of a specific covenant. The Law of Moses was ONLY for Jews. The Noahide Laws were for all humankind who desired a relationship with Jehovah. When the Jews bound themselves with the covenant of Moses they regarded the rest of mankind (Gentiles) as being under the Laws of the Sons of Noah.

  What specifically were the Noahide Laws. Rabbinical traditions break them down on of a couple of ways, but, essentially they are these:

  The Seven Noahide Laws (Hebrew: ??? ????? ??? ??, Ševa? miswot bne-Noa?), also called the Brit Noah ("Covenant of Noah") mitzvot (commandments) and halakhot (laws) that are morally binding on non-Jews according to Judaism.

  They are listed in the Talmud and elaborated on by post-Talmudic authorities. Opinions differ on the reach of these commandments and the laws derived from them, but all contemporary authorities agree that there are seven commandments. These commandments and laws are based on oral traditions as well as scriptural exegesis of Genesis 2:16 and 9:4-

  The Seven Laws

  The seven laws (commonly rendered as Sheva Mitzvot Shel Bnei Noach) are:

  1. Avodah zarah - Do not worship false gods.
  2. Shefichat damim - Do not murder.
  3. Gezel - Do not steal (or kidnap).
  4. Gilui arayot - Do not be sexually immoral (forbidden sexual acts are traditionally interpreted to include incest, bestiality, male homosexual sex acts, i.e. sodomy, and adultery.)
  5. Birkat Hashem - Do not "bless God" euphemistically referring to blasphemy.
  6. Ever min ha-chai - Do not eat any flesh that was torn from the body of a living animal (given to Noah and traditionally interpreted as a prohibition of cruelty towards animals)
  7. Dinim - Set up a system of honest, effective courts, police and laws.

  Anyone (non-Jew) keeping the above was consider on EQUAL moral status with Jehovah as a Jew keeping the laws of Moses.

  It is important to note that JEWS did not practice evangelism nor attempt to convert Non-Jews. This is important to the consideration of the discussion of what Gentiles were ___required__to adhere to in the book of Acts vis a vis the Jewish congregation in controversy with Paul.

  Christian adherence

  Some Christian writers[4], particularly those affiliated with Primitive Apostolic Christianity see the verses in Acts 15:19-21 as a directive from the first Council of Jerusalem to observe the basic understanding of the Noahide Laws in order to be considered righteous Gentiles, and not be required to live completely as Jews.

  According to Acts 15, the Council of Jerusalem determined that circumcision was not required of new converts, only avoidance of "pollution of idols, fornication, things strangled, and blood" (KJV, Acts 15:20). The basis for these prohibitions as found in Acts 15:21 states only: "For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day". The evidence of these Noachian inclusions to primitive Christian observance were in addition to the moral Ten Commandments given to Moses at Sinai, which covers the most essential requirements of the Noachian covenant. The additions of the four cited above were to complete the requirements of the new Gentile converts to primitive Christianity.

  That is why the entire argument in Acts (from which JW's derive their peculiar slant on Blood) must be seen from the purest historical and religious context.

  Let's look at the Seven Laws from Judaism's viewpoint:

  "Seven commandments were the sons of Noah commanded: (1) concerning adjudication, (2) and concerning idolatry, (3) and concerning blasphemy, (4) and concerning sexual immorality, (5) and concerning bloodshed, (6) and concerning robbery, (7) and concerning a limb torn from a living animal" -- (Talmud Sanh.56a).

  The particular one we are concerned with here is #5 BLOODSHED

  As parsed normally by the Rabbinical writers:

  To behave justly in all relationships, and to establish courts of justice.

  To refrain from blaspheming Gods name.

  To refrain from practicing idolatry.

  To avoid immoral practices, specifically incest and adultery.

  To avoid shedding the blood of ones fellow man.

  To refrain from robbing ones fellow man.

  To refrain from eating a limb torn from a live animal.

  This is the reference we need to understand what was ACTUALLY being argued in Jerusalem in the book of Acts.

  (Above cited from Wikipedia and http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/7laws.html )
• 

  Zico

  I've been talking to a JW over the past few days about blood, and the stuff I've learned from this site. Though I approached it from the viewpoint of a confused JW who wants help understanding, so I can't tell him how unscriptural it actually is.

  He's been in lots of contact with a Hospital Liason Committee member, who has been of little help. Lots of cognitive dissonance going on, the best being when he said that Jehovah might be testing us to see how dedicated we are to his blood laws after I pointed out that extracting blood components from blood is like refusing to eat a pizza whole, but then cutting it into little parts to eat it, an illustration I got off this site. I thought this was a perfect example of creating a new thought when he realises that something doesn't make sense... Though when I pointed out the folly of stating that Jehovah would test us, he got all defensive and said I misunderstood what he said... He's just given up and said 'We seem to be going round in circles, and I don't think we're ever going to understand it, I think we should just leave it and...' [now here comes that ultimate JW loophole] '...wait on Jehovah to clear it up for us.'