Who did Jesus die for?

by Perry 55 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Perry
    Perry

    I met a really nice couple once who went to an orphanage in a foreign country and adopted a little girl. Impressed with their goodness I probed a little as to why they had done such a noble thing. Surprisingly, the man told me that this was their third child to adopt. He said that their life was so much enriched with the first two that they just wanted to get another one. I dared not ask why they chose one child over another because obviously they were not under obligation to chose any of them. Their choice was probably the result of he and his wife's own private counsels.

    It reminded me of God who is under no obligation to save anyone .... fallen, sinful mankind are not his children. However, similarly He has chosen to save some.

    So my question is: Did Jesus die for everyone? Or, just those "given" to him by the Father?

    John 6:39
    And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them to eternal life at the last day.
  • Lo-ru-hamah
    Lo-ru-hamah

    It depends on whom you are speaking to. The JW's will have you believe that Jesus died for just the 144,000 and that by "holding on to the skirt of a jew" those exercising faith in the 144,000 would be saved by their belief in that group. The 144,000 being the chosen ones.

    However, Romans chapter 5 discusses the sin of Adam and the saving merit of Jesus' sacrafice.

    (Romans 5:15) But it is not with the gift as it was with the trespass. For if by one man’s trespass many died, the undeserved kindness of God and his free gift with the undeserved kindness by the one man Jesus Christ abounded much more to many.

    Jesus' sacrafice was to cover Adams sin. Adams sin affected every human being that has been or is alive today. How sad if Jesus' only had the saving power for 144,000 and those who put faith in that group 6,000,000 plus or minus a few? Also, John 3:16 says: For God loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might have everlasting life.

    It seems to me that this implies everyone who believes in Jesus would be saved by his blood.

    I have quoted the NWT bible. However, I think it good to note that the majority of bible translations translate the expression exercising faith as believe or believing.

    Just my thoughts.

    Loruhamah

  • SusanHere
    SusanHere

    He died for everyone. What we choose to do with his gift is up to each us.

    Susan

  • Alwayshere
    Alwayshere
    I have quoted the NWT bible. However, I think it good to note that the majority of the bible translations translate the expression exercising faith as believe or believing.

    Yes, The New Jerusalem bible and KJ translate it different from the NWT. I agree it is pretty plain "All who believe in Jesus will be saved." Watchtower Society wants everyone to think you can't get life unless you are in their organization. I may not get life but it will not be because I wasn't in that cult.

  • choosing life
    choosing life

    How about 1 Cor.15:22-"For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive."

    What person was not affected by Adam's sin? If we all die because of Adam's sin, then this verse seems to me to say that we will all be made alive through Christ's sacrifice. if Adam's sin could wipe out the whole human race, why couldn't Christ's sacrifice give life to the whole human race?

  • Lois
    Lois

    Jesus died for all:

    John 1:29

    John 3:16

    John 4:42

    1 Timothy 4:10

    1 John 2:2

    1 John 4:14

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    Indeed he died for everyone but a freedom offered has to be accepted in order to work its benefits. Who knows why some accept it and some do not.

  • Perry
    Perry

    I raise parrots, some quite rare and pricey. Recently, there was only one Spix Macaw left in the wild. His species ruined by being hunted to extinction. The lone survivor would occasionally be seen near a remote village in the Amazon rainforest. Eventually, even he stopped being seen and hasn't been spotted in three or 4 years now. However, a few pairs were kept and bred in captivity and a few years ago a plan was launched to re-introduce 50 captive-bred birds back into the wild.

    Parrots and especially Macaws are highly intelligent.....probably near a 2 or 3 year old child. They rely less on instinct than other animals and in accordance with their intelligence, more on learning from the flock and from experience with the parents. However, with the connection to the experienced leaders severed through captive breeding; how could they know what no body knew? Without experience with freedon, how would they know how to find food? Or, how to use the clay licks to obtain vital mineral supplments? Or, how to effectively avoid predators? How to raise and properly care for their own offspring? How could they even know they were "captive bred" as opposed to freedom-bred if that is all they had ever known? Sadly, all 50 of the released birds died. Many say that any sucessful return to the wild is impossible.

    Now a very real argument could be made that the species is already extinct ... or dead; a complete loss. True, the species still exists in captivity and can breed and eat, and even talk and amuse their captors. But could someone really say that they are truly alive in the sense that their free-flying ancestors were? Do any of the birds on their own have the slightest chance of learning what none can presently teach them? Can any of them on thier own merit approach their native environment competently? No. They are a completely ruined species with no chance of returning to the freedom for which they were created.

    I believe that unless a person understands the similarity of fallen humans to the above true story, they cannot understand God's Grace and role of adopter of a sampling of the human race. Neither will we be able to grasp our position in relation to the Father..... one of orphan, or of being rescued from total captivity to sin, and rescued from a limited world-view.

    In the same way,on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

    As it is written:"There is none righteous, no, not one;

    But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

    And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

    THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME, BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR. HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES, AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED,

    Do we chose God? Or, does God chose us?

    "Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

    "You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

    you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world

    just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love

    ...Elijah--how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 "Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me"? 4 And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal." 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. 7 What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,

    not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.

    But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

    He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things--and the things that are not--to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus,

    Well, I could go on but.... I believe that Jesus died for all people in the sense mentioned below.

    And they sang a new song:"You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased [individual] men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation. - parenthesis mine

    In other words, his death was for everyone in its scope. God is not partial to a particular group. The sacrifice is pervasive..... every tribe, language, nation and people. But, in order for it to be effective it must be accepted and used by the High Priest, Jesus Christ who intercedes for us and applies the actual value of his blood to his father on behalf of the ones he was given after being chosen by the Father.

    Since, none of us can properly interact with God in Freedom by reason of our own efforts, it must be given to us as a gift, by grace.... if it is to be done at all.

    Joh 6:44 - Show Context

    "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Joh 6:65 - Show Context
    He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

    If this is true, then being chosen is like winning the lottery every single day. And, being not chosen is just more of the same that we were born into. It also means that if we have come to God and have a measure of faith in him, we need to stop playing games with ourselves. Faith isn't our gift to God that unleashes his favor. It's the other way around. Faith is Gods gift to us as a result of his favor.

    The good news for the lost is that if we do not have faith, we need merely ask for it. If you will not ask for faith it is because you can't. If you do, it is because you are chosen to do so. Further, God promises to complete us even from this simple start.

    For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

    This in my opinion is the real Good News that is lost in many "modern" churches.

    If all this is true, then we should stop asking God to "help" us to run faster, jump higher, and to do more. It's not about us. We're no different than the Witnesses if we do. But rather to ask God to give us more Grace so that He can live his life through us and we be enabled to do things in the manner that his Son did them when he walked among us.

    The reality is that God does it all, start to finish. This is good news to those who are weak, but bad news for the ego and for our pride. We must ask.

    Even though you are bad, you know how to give good gifts to your children. How much more your heavenly Father will give good things to those who ask him!

  • mouthy
    mouthy

    Faith is Gods gift to us as a result of his favor. Amen Perry good post

    Who did Jesus die for? >>>> ME!!!!

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    "Who did Jesus die for? >>>> ME!!!!"

    Grandmother...what a small world...me too!!!

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