Yah they seem real confused when they use the scripture of ,the kingdom of the world became the kingdom of our God , in which case it's talking about the same trumpet blast the apostle Paul mentioned as the time for the dead to be raised and the literal kingdom rule to begin . They go so far as to say the "anointed" have already been raised but for some reason they haven't left this world for the next . Revs 11:15 2 thess 4:17 . It's obviously the last and final trumpet blast but in essence they believe they are under the millenial rule right now . What a convoluted mess they make out of that ..
1914 ,the Generation that got tossed in the Garbage Can
Another thing I can't understand is where does this "More precise viewpoint" leave the Great Crowd doctrine?
When the Great Crowd doctrine was formally introduced in the summer of 1935, it was taught that the Great Tribulation had commenced with WWI, but those days had been "cut short" and it was in this sense that it was understood that they had "Come out of the Great Tribulation."
When that viewpoint was changed in the 70's and the Great Tribulation became an event located entirely in the future it was conceded that technically, nobody could really be a member of the Great Crowed until they had actually survived the Great Tribulation, but it was understood that the proximity of the end (i.e. Within a generation) was what had made the identification of these "Prospective" members of the Great Crowd possible in 1935.
IOW the Great Tribulation had to occur within the lifetime of those that stood up in 1935 and were publicly told that they were the, "Great Multitude" of Revalation since one can't even be a "Prospective" survivor of the Great Tribulation if that event will not occur in their lifetime. Therefore, the Great Crowd doctrine became inseparably joined to the pre-95 understanding of the "Generation."
Now, post-95, the JW's need to either quit referring to the 1935 convention as a "Bright flash of light" or they need to modify the Great Crowd doctrine yet again.
A more precise Viewpoint??..WBT$ was precise when they said the generation of 1914 would never die..WBT$ was precise when they said armageddon would be here by 1975..1975 has come and gone..The generation of 1914 are almost all dead,who ever is left got tossed in the WBT$ Garbage Can..Where is the WBT$ pricision in all of this?.....WBT$,if your reading this thread..Do you have enough of Jehovah`s blessing to come and debate us on this thread..If you are truley Gods organization shouldn`t you set things right?..You are being made to look like a dishonest,unGodly Cult..Will you make a stand for your organization?.The organization that claims to represent God almighty himself..Not much of a claim if you can`t back it up..WBT$,this is your chance...OUTLAW
that's right TD , they did not identify the GC in 1935 since the GC of Revelation 7 come out of the GT and survive but today most of those dubbys are dead . The WTBTS keeps saying the GC does not inherit the kingdom of the heavens but only paradise earth just like the ancient jews but it's obvious the bible is saying that the GC and those of the second resurrection inherit the kingdom of the heavens and the paradise earth . The kingdom of the heavens comes to earth and rules while transforming it into paradise . IMO
Okay, so I was made to go to the meetings and I was also made to get baptised. I was NOT very studius (by nature) and as I didn't wanna be in the hall anyway, I didn't take much notice. I have read the whole of this thread and it has blown my mind.
Am I understanding from all of this that (sorry I am trying to get to grips with it all - simply) the 144,000 members of the GC who we all thought would die and then armageddon would come... now all probably dead. So the GB have changed their story. Do the GC not all partake in the bread and wine at the memorial.... so if no one is partaking - then they are all dead! they must keep numbers! (sorry, I need all this in simple terms).
Okay so if they have now changed their minds about this..... then what is the new teaching? And, if they can interpret the Bible as saying x, y, and z one day and then a, b, c the next..... well (as I said I am not the worlds greatest philosopher) even I can see that I would be worrying about what I was in!!!!!
I mean, I still have that scripture in my mind (drummed in) about the end of this system of things, where men would be lovers of money rather than lovers of god...... blah blah... you all know it so fill in the gap. It goes around my head and still makes me worry!!!! It does all sound like today to be honest... and I'm NO historian either (believe it or not).... so where some of you say this is the most peacefull the earth has been, I would like to know more.
Btw.... and thanx for humoring me here... the article of the watchtower with all the people on the front - what are they saying about these people inside the watchtower?
This is all amazing!
It only seems to most JWs that there are no anointed any more. The stats say that over 8500 people partook at the Memorial. When you consider there are almost 100,000 congregations worldwide of JWs, it would make sense that over 90,000 congregations have no one drinking the wine/eating the bread at the KH (assuming there is only one anointed per 8,500 congregations). Are they all real or genuine anointed, even the WTS doesn't think so.
The 1914 generation has not yet disappeared; people would be 92 years or older and people live longer nowadays in many countries. I have a request in for some stats on that...I'll post them when they come in.
awol..Although this information came out in 1995,it is new to me too.I found out about it 5 days ago.Very shocking indeed!.....Thanks Blondie...OUTLAW
Actually I think it's " men will be lovers of pleasures " of course the wealthy do have alot of pleasures as not seen in the time of the writing of that . I agree that the numbers for the" anointed" are way too high . They even tried to end the "anointing" in 1935 by declaring the identity of the GC. Revelation states that the last of the 144k dies as a martyr and then the conclusion takes place . It's also obvious they are all male eunichs , no women in this group . My take is it's possible to be anointed but you are not of the ruling class until you die as a martyr . There is nothing in the bible that says the GC can't partake but I think it's strictly a guy thing . The bible is clear that many are called but few are chosen , not all the people that received the anointing in the first century actually remained in union with the church or God. I've noticed you do have to be careful when talking to a dubby because they do seem confused over the beliefs since they change them constantly.