Will apostates burn in Gehenna??? (page 2)

done4good

It is common belief among Jehovah's Witnesses, however, that Apostates have "likely" sinned against the Holy Spirit, and will not likely ever repent and return to Jehovah's organization.
I would be curious to know if this point has ever been raised in the magazines, it certainly is part of the "JW folklore", which suggests that the idea had to have emerged from the GB, Russell or Rutherford at some point in their history.

As far as I know, they have never been specific about what constitutes "sinning against the holy spirit".

j

Mary

KidA said: It is common belief among Jehovah's Witnesses, however, that Apostates have "likely" sinned against the Holy Spirit, and will not likely ever repent and return to Jehovah's organization. I would be curious to know if this point has ever been raised in the magazines, it certainly is part of the "JW folklore", which suggests that the idea had to have emerged from the GB, Russell or Rutherford at some point in their history.

I'm not at home now, so I can't look it up, but my understanding is that their official line of thinking on this is that someone who's part of the 144,000 who commits apostasy has committed the "unforgivable sin." They base this on the scripture that says "...those that have tasted the free heavenly gift..." and who deliberately go against the ~~WTS~~ Holy Spirit is going straight to hell in a handbag. For the R&F Dub who commits "apostasy", it's slightly less harsh. It's possible to be reinstated, but you have to eat crow and kiss ass for the rest of your natural born life. In addition, you'll be viewed with suspicion forever.

kid-A

"is that their official line of thinking on this is that someone who's part of the 144,000 who commits apostasy has committed the "unforgivable sin."

Yes I think you're right Mary, I seem to recall the reference applying specifically to Jehoobies special "frequent flyer" club, the 144K !!! LOL

Amazing

Mary,

I'm not at home now, so I can't look it up, but my understanding is that their official line of thinking on this is that someone who's part of the 144,000 who commits apostasy has committed the "unforgivable sin." They base this on the scripture that says "...those that have tasted the free heavenly gift..." and who deliberately go against the ~~WTS~~ Holy Spirit is going straight to hell in a handbag. For the R&F Dub who commits "apostasy", it's slightly less harsh. It's possible to be reinstated, but you have to eat crow and kiss ass for the rest of your natural born life. In addition, you'll be viewed with suspicion forever.

The feelings about the 144,000 who are guilty of apostasy is that they risk becoming one of the "Evil Slave" is they actively turn against the Watchtower organization. Of course, this means likely sinning against the Holy Spirit in their minds. However, even a member of the 144,000 can return after leaving for reasons of apostasy or immorality. The August 1976 Watchtower, Questions from Readers, settled that issue. Many JWs use to believe that if one of the 144,000 was merely disfellowshiped for ordinary reasons that they have sinned against the Holy Spirit. However, the article completely dispells that notion.

Jim Whitney

The wanderer

>

IP_SEC

Last I heard is no. The apostates who followed Korah were swallowed up by sheol and therefore are in the common grave of man. Take that to the bank dubbies.

sspo

Those in the 1st century that saw the operation of the holy spirit thru Jesus and fought it as the Pharisees did in denying Jesus and what he did are said to have sinned against the holy spirit.

Today according to the Watchtower "God's only channel on earth"............ once you leave it as an apostate and fight it,oppose it, speak against Jesus Brothers, publish booklets against them, you are fighting the holy spirit and its operation.

So you will burn in Gehenna.

The sickening thing is that the GB, has taken the position of being God's channel on earth and millions continue to beleive it.

Continue fighting it.

Narkissos

Watchtower 4/1 1982, p. 27:

Now, the Bible definitely shows that some end up in the symbolic Gehenna before the 1,000-year Judgment Day begins. Jesus told the unrepentant scribes and Pharisees that they and their Gentile proselytes were ‘subjects for Gehenna’ or, literally, ‘sons of Gehenna.’ (Matthew 23:15, 33-35; see also John 9:39-41; 15:22-24.) If even a proselyte of the Pharisees became a subject for Gehenna ‘twice as much so as themselves,’ how much more so Judas Iscariot, who made a heinous deal with them to betray God’s Son! Jesus implied this when he called Judas "the son of destruction." (John 17:12) Similarly, unrepentant apostates go, at death, not to Sheol, or Hades, but to Gehenna. (Hebrews 6:4-8; 2 Peter 2:1) The same is true of dedicated Christians who persist in willful sin or those who "shrink back." (Hebrews 10:26-31, 38, 39) These are merely examples to show that some, even in "this system of things," have committed the sin for which there is no forgiveness, not even in the system of things "to come." (Matthew 12:31, 32; compare 1 John 5:16.) They will, therefore, not be resurrected.

Of course the WT version of Gehenna doesn't really burn, so forget about the marshmallows.

kid-A

A definition of Gehenna from http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=115&letter=G

By : Kaufmann Kohler

Ludwig Blau

Nature and Situation.

The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch was originally in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). For this reason the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (So?ah 22a); according to Gen. R. ix. 9, the words "very good" in Gen. i. 31 refer to hell; hence the latter must have been created on the sixth day. Yet opinions on this point vary. According to some sources, it was created on the second day; according to others, even before the world, only its fire being created on the second day (Gen. R. iv., end; Pes. 54a). The "fiery furnace" that Abraham saw (Gen. xv. 17, Hebr.) was Gehenna (Mek. xx. 18b, 71b; comp. Enoch, xcviii. 3, ciii. 8; Matt. xiii. 42, 50; 'Er. 19a, where the "fiery furnace" is also identified with the gate of Gehenna). Opinions also vary as to the situation, extent, and nature of hell. The statement that Gehenna is situated in the valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem, in the "accursed valley" (Enoch, xxvii. 1 et seq.), means simply that it has a gate there. It was in Zion, and had a gate in Jerusalem (Isa. xxxi. 9). It had three gates, one in the wilderness, one in the sea, and one in Jerusalem ('Er. 19a). The gate lies between two palm-trees in the valley of Hinnom, from which smoke is continually rising (ib.). The mouth is narrow, impeding the smoke, but below Gehenna extends indefinitely (Men. 99b). According to one opinion, it is above the firmament, and according to another, behind the dark mountains (Ta'an. 32b). An Arabian pointed out to a scholar the spot in the wilderness where the earth swallowed the sons of Korah (Num. xvi. 31-32), who descended into Gehenna (Sanh. 110b). It is situated deep down in the earth, and is immeasurably large. "The earth is one-sixtieth of the garden, the garden one-sixtieth of Eden [paradise], Eden one-sixtieth of Gehenna; hence the whole world is like a lid for Gehenna. Some say that Gehenna can not be measured" (Pes. 94a). It is divided into seven compartments (So?ah 10b); a similar view was held by the Babylonians (Jeremias, "Hölle und Paradies bei den Babyloniern," pp. 16 et seq., Leipsic, 1901; Guthe, "Kurzes Bibel-wörterb." p. 272, Tübingen and Leipsic, 1903).

How does the WTS evade the issue of "burning fire" given the original conception of gehenna as a firey wasteland? Another etymological misinterpretation by Fred Franz?

Will apostates burn in Gehenna???

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