The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness 1380 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • thirdwitness
    thirdwitness

    Let me try once more to explain parousia in simple language because some still do not understand what JWs teach.

    Jesus becomes the newly established king of God's kingdom in 1914 as testified by the world events and the 7 times. He did come as king. Coming is a correct word to use when speaking of his arrival in 1914. But coming does not accurately depict the meaning of parousia because not only did he come but he stayed. He is now present. And he will continue to be present until his coming forth at Armaggedon. Then he will come forth to execute the judgements that have been rendered.

    Revelation 6 explains it also. Verse 2 And I saw, and, look! a white horse; and the one seated upon it had a bow; and a crown was given him, and he went forth conquering and to complete his conquest. We know this is Jesus because Revelation 19 tells us outrightly that he is the rider of the white horse. He received the crown in 1914 and went forth conquering or subduing in the midst of his enemies as Psalms 110 tells us. As you read Psalms 110 notice the order of the action that Jesus takes.

    2 The rod of your strength Jehovah will send out of Zion, [saying:]
    “Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.”

    3 Your people will offer themselves willingly on the day of your military force.
    In the splendors of holiness, from the womb of the dawn,
    You have your company of young men just like dewdrops...

    5 Jehovah himself at your right hand
    Will certainly break kings to pieces on the day of his anger.

    6 He will execute judgment among the nations;
    He will cause a fullness of dead bodies.
    He will certainly break to pieces the head one over a populous land.

    Did you notice what he does after becoming king upon Mt Zion? First he collects together his large army. These are the ones preaching the good news. Then he breaks kings to pieces. This is Armageddon.

    The first part of his parousia involves gathering his organization. Some seem to think Jesus is not king and is not present because he has not crushed all the kingdoms of the earth. Big mistake to think that.

    It is just as when a king returns after being absent to take up his rightful throne. Upon his arrival he realizes that many will not accept him as king. He knows beforehand that this will be the case. Although he has the power to overcome his enemies and take back his kingship immediately he does not do this because first he wants to find out who is loyal to him. He is present all the while as he gathers his loyal ones. After gathering the loyal ones it is time to destroy his enemies. At that point he comes forth and crushes all opposers. At no time after his arrival did he leave. He stayed and was present and conducted the work of gathering those loyal to him. Then at the appointed time he comes forth and destroys those enemies of his rulership. Really it is not a difficult thing to understand for those honest with themselves and look at the Bible without prejudice against JWs.

    There are numerous scriptures that tells us that Jesus would become king after his ascension to heaven. Daniel 7:13,14, Daniel 2:44, Revelation 11 and 12, Luke 19 about securing kingly power, to name a few.

    Yes, the truth is really simple. It is the apostates that want to mislead you and make it complicated.

  • reneeisorym
    reneeisorym

    My JW mom said it best:
    "I am a banker and can understand how to run a bank with all of my responsibilities from opening accounts to managing tellers and I can not understand when the Watchtower explains prophecy. I guess I'm just dumb"

    No mom, you're not dumb. You know the WatchTower makes no sense, but you just can't let go.

    Its amazing to me at how I can completely understand books on theology from scholars but the WatchTower publications leave me scratching my head. It reminds me of taking two puzzle pieces and jamming them together when you obviously have the wrong piece.

  • thirdwitness
    thirdwitness

    So Revelation 6 tells us he received the crown and began his ride. As he rides he gathers his followers. As he continues to ride he takes up the long sword described in Revelation 19 and destroys all opposers of the kingdom. It is one continuous ride that culminates at Armageddon. He doesn't get off his horse till the conquest is completed. The conquest includes first gathering those loyal ones from every nation to his side and then destroying those opposed to his kingship.

    Jesus' parousia = Jesus' ride on the white horse.

    Sign of his parousia points to 1914.

    Seven times points to 1914.

  • thirdwitness
  • thirdwitness
    thirdwitness

    Auldsoul said: If you are right about Jesus beginning to exercise dominion in 1914, how can you possibly explain this verse?

    Revelation 1:4-5 John to the seven congregations that are in the [district of] Asia: May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from “The One who is and who was and who is coming,” and from the seven spirits that are before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “The firstborn from the dead,” and “The Ruler of the kings of the earth.”

    The visions of Revelation take place in the Lord's day from 1914 onward. Jesus is speaking to the congregations as king of God's kingdom. Besides that. Even when on earth Jesus was king of kings because he was the rightful king to take up the throne of God's kingdom. But he waited untill the 7 times had been fulfilled, the appointed time set by Jehovah to take up his kingship as rightful king of God's Messianic kingdom.

  • thirdwitness
    thirdwitness

    Auldsoul: You haven't responded yet. I am curious, did the master erchomai around 1914, or not?

    And just to make this clear, yes, the master did erchomai in 1914. And he stayed thus his parousia began. He will erchomai forth again at Armageddon at the end of his parousia to finish the job he started in 1914.

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost
    These are the ones preaching the good news. Then he breaks kings to pieces. This is Armageddon.

    2 ; The rod of your strength Jehovah will send out of Zion, [saying:]

    “Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.”
    ;

    3 ; Your people will offer themselves willingly on the day of your military force.

    In the splendors of holiness, from the womb of the dawn,

    You have your company of young men just like dewdrops...
    ;

    5 ; Jehovah himself at your right hand

    Will certainly break kings to pieces on the day of his anger.
    ;

    6 ; He will execute judgment among the nations;

    He will cause a fullness of dead bodies.

    He will certainly break to pieces the head one over a populous land.

    Could you point me to where the text of Psalm 110 actually says what you say it says? I understand that Psalm 110 is viewed as concerning the Messianic Kingdom but you go much further than that and I can't see it in the text i.e. reference to the present-day where you equate "people offering themselves willingly" to the door-to-door proselytising of JWs and then "Armageddon" - where is that in the text?

    Then you have the temerity to come out with this :

    Yes, the truth is really simple. It is the apostates that want to mislead you and make it complicated.

    You gotta be kiddin'! "Making it complicated" is the preserve of those who with fanciful dreams full of bizarre symbols would seek to mislead many, no better example being Joe Ratherflawed and his progeny, the WTS.

  • PopeOfEruke
    PopeOfEruke
    He will erchomai forth again at Armageddon at the end of his parousia to finish the job he started in 1914.

    At the end of his presence? Why will Jesus presence end, as I thought he is King for 1000 years? Oh I see, you are now saying Armageddon will come at the end of 1000 years, so in 2914, (probably September 30, about 2:30PM in the afternoon.)

    So that's not too much longer for the brothers to keep waiting. Soon brothers soon! The end is near.

    Pope

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Death to the Pixies wrote:

    :: Rolf Furuli is a joke. Furuli is much like the handful of Young-Earth Creationists who have gotten advanced degrees in science for one purpose: to get secular credentials so as to pretend that when they advance their religious views, they're really advancing science.

    : Yes, you are correct-this has been shown with his newly achieved doctorate of arts in which his dissertation was on Classical Hebrew Verb forms. Clearly this was to advance his religious views.

    As is so typical of JW defenders, you've completely missed the point. I'll not try to enlighten you.

    AlanF

  • proplog2
    proplog2

    Here is something I wrote back in 1999 on the alt.jw newsgroup

    The date of 1914 has been a pivotal date for the Watchtower. A lot
    hinges on it. Russell counted down to 1914 and the Watchtower has
    been counting the years since 1914. The new Daniel book reaffirms
    the Watchtowers old mistakes with reference to this date.

    The overarching error in connection with the date of 1914 is not
    the debate over when the count of 2,520 years starts but whether
    there should be ANY counting of 2,520 years at all. On page 94 the
    question for paragraph 24 is:

    "The great dream tree symbolizes what?"

    The Daniel book says

    "the tree stands for rulership and sovereignty far grander than
    that of Babylon's king. It symbolizes the universal sovereignty of
    Jehovah...especially with respect to the earth."

    If you read the 4th Chapter of Daniel it says nothing specifically
    about the tree symbolizing the universal sovereignty of Jehovah.
    Since the 4th Chapter of Daniel doesn't say that the tree
    symbolizes the universal sovereignty of Jehovah it is THEREFORE
    presumptuous for the Watchtower to make that claim. The 4th
    chapter however doesn't leave the interpretation of the dream to
    our imagination. It tells us specifically what that tree
    represents. Daniel reveals the interpretation with these words at
    Daniel 4:22 "It is YOU O king". That's it. The tree represents
    Nebuchadnezzar. Any further elaboration of this simple explanation
    is pure speculation. The Watchtower is allowed to speculate but
    individual JW's are disfellowshipped if they question this
    Watchtower speculation.

    Next the Watchtower invokes an imaginary "rule" for interpreting
    prophecy.

    The question for paragraph 28 page 96:

    "What rule must be applied to the 2,520 days of the prophetic seven
    times?"

    The answer: "A day for a year." To support this "rule" they quote
    Ezekiel 4:6,7 and Numbers 14:34. Read those scriptures. There is
    nothing about them that suggests that there is some universal rule
    of using a day for a year when interpreting prophecies that mention
    a number of days. Once again this is speculation. It's no wonder
    they warn JW's about speculation. They seem to have a problem with
    the consequences of foolish speculation.

    But, suppose there really is a rule that you use a day for a year? How consistent are they in following that rule? Why don't they use
    that rule with Daniel 8:14 in counting the 2,300 days? Or what
    about the 1,290 days and 1,335 days in Daniel 12:11,12? Apparently
    this rule is not a rule at all!!

    The debate on 607BC is an interesting discussion but it is merely
    a side issue. Even if 607BC were the indisputable beginning to the
    70 year period of desolation there is no basis for counting 2,520
    years to some imagined point in the future when Christ begins to
    rule.

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