It is that simple!! (page 4)

JamesThomas

Love our neighbor as ourselves.

Roo, I have no problem with that. It seems natural to treat others as we desire to be treated. However this side-steps the menacing dynamics with the scripture I quoted.

Your mention of loving our neighbor brings up the same problems though. Can we honestly, sincerely and truly love, because we are commanded to? and not only commanded to, but have the dynamics of greed for reward, and/or fear of punishment added? Genuine love, is not something we do via command like a dog doing tricks. But this is what the Bible seems to be reducing it to. "Love me. Love others; or...". This, is insane and corrupts the beauty of love.

Another thing the Bible does is place supreme emphasis on a deity, an object separate and apart from us. In this act of placing a bright star above us, it subtracts and dims the divinity in the background, which is all the rest of the universe. Being focused on a tiny bright fragment or image in our mind (beliefs), is not conducive to acute awareness of the infinite-divinity in and around us. It is the actual awareness of that which has no beginning and no end, that embraces all in a oneness where true love and understanding thrives.

My point is, that it is not necessary to reduce the Divine down to a deity or person. It's not necessary to concentrate or circumscribe our Source, because a book tells us to. The problem is is that we too freely create and addictively cherish within our minds a god that is just another object, piece or fragment within phenomena. Instead discover what ALL phenomena exist within. What is the closest most intimate reality of being and existing?

j

agapa37

Your mention of loving our neighbor brings up the same problems though. Can we honestly, sincerely and truly love, because we are commanded to? and not only commanded to, but have the dynamics of greed for reward, and/or fear of punishment added?

I think that our motives to love is not only and solely based on command. Along with the command God has SHOWN, DEMONSTRATED it to us even at great cost to himself. So love is caused not only by command but by motivation and desire and appreciation for the one who loved us FIRST.

BluesBrother

I have to say that this line of reasoning is with me too

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life...

So if you do not believe, you do not get. There is of course much more to belief than obeying the 2nd command to love your neighbour . If you read the Gospels, Jesus made it very clear that a commitment and faith was involved. Now, what about the millions of devout Hindus , Sikhs and Muslims, to name but three of the worlds non Christian religions. These also worship God. Are they to be discarded , as a literal reading of the Scriptures would have us beleive?

I do not want to "rubbish" the Bible, rubbishing the WTS is quite enough for me at the moment but I cannot ignore the question.

JamesThomas

our motives to love is not only and solely based on command. Along with the command God has SHOWN, DEMONSTRATED it to us even at great cost to himself. So love is caused not only by command but by motivation and desire and appreciation for the one who loved us FIRST.

Agapa, if I can not accept your god, how will he show and demonstrate his love to me?

I can not dwell within an INFINITE expression of life and universe, and yet give credit to a limited source. It's that simple.

j

JamesThomas

Again I'd like to add that this is not about demeaning people (it can easily look like that). Rather it's about pointing towards what is INFINITE; and if infinite, then present. Present not as an entity or thing separate, but rather as all Presence/Being/Existence. In other words, what you really are when all that is believed to be "you" and "other" is seen through.

Understandably, Infinity cast a shadow over all else; especially our cherished little gods and spiritual entities; of which we can be mighty protective....and it may be wise to be protective as godlets are as fragile as tiny opalescent tea cups, as delicate as a wisp of smoke or thought...for all they are is an idea.

A moment will come when all is let go, and there is clearly seen what needs no protection or coddling, for there is nothing other to harm it. Nothing left outside to breech it or attack. The battle is over. No walls remain. It is seen what you truly are, and what all IS.

alt

j

poppers

Understandably, Infinity cast a shadow over all else; especially our cherished little gods and spiritual entities; of which we can be mighty protective....and it may be wise to be protective as godlets are as fragile as tiny opalescent tea cups, as delicate as a wisp of smoke or thought...for all they are is an idea.
A moment will come when all is let go, and there is clearly seen what needs no protection or coddling, for there is nothing other to harm it. Nothing left outside to breech it or attack. The battle is over. No walls remain. It is seen what you truly are, and what all IS.

That's just beautiful, JT. Thanks for sharing.

poppers

LittleToe

Nice turn of phrase there James

The "disparage" comment wasn't directed at you, incidentally, it was just a general comment.

JamesThomas

Thank you poppers and Ross for your kind comments. Eventually some words must fall into place, via accident.

The "disparage" comment wasn't directed at you, incidentally, it was just a general comment.

Ross, I understand friend. Not a problem. My words can and often do meet the criteria of being offensive and belittling of peoples beliefs. I just don't know how else to get the point across.

Perhaps if someone gets their beliefs trampled to death (in a kind way), and they also see that their being has not been touched -- something will click. I don't know.

j

Auchmull

It would be a whole lot more simple if I saw some of these miracles for myself, and not have to take the word of someone who wrote something down 2,000 years ago.

If the performing of miracles was the key for the apostles and others to believe in Jesus, why should we today be expected to accept anything less? They got miracles; we get paper and ink. BIG difference!

Yes! this hit the nail on the head for me.

Rooster

Everyone will get another chance at life. If this was not the case then a price or defined value could be attached to the sacrificial death of Jesus'. The death of Christ for mankind is priceless!

22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.

Rooster

It is that simple!!

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