Public Reproof: What is it? Has it ever happend in your Hall or to you?

by jayhawk1 33 Replies latest jw friends

  • bronzefist

    And the other side of the coin is:

    My son attended a party where everyone brought their own alcohol. Six were underage my son was not. Someone got to bragging, and they got called before the elders. The six all lied and said my son supplied the alcohol. My son was truthful from the start. Elders spoke to the six once again and they came least about the alcohol. The six were publicly reproved. Elders had called NY about my son, but were told not to reprove my son because he could sue because he did nothing illegal.

    Now the fun part. After the meeting the families of the six all went out to eat pizza and MARKED my son. None of the kids or families ever spoke to my son, who left the truth just after the incident.

    Nothing against all of you who jump up and down about sticking it to the organization because you were reproved.These six young "friends" and their familes are slugs . By the way 3 of them are MS'S now. Two are Pioneers.

  • SirNose586

    Dang bronzefist, that's dirt what happened to your son. There used to be inter-family drama in my congregation too, but nothing as blatant as what those families did. All the individuals involved in family drama either moved away from the congregation or dropped out altogether.

    It's so petty...

  • okie46

    RE the "earning back of privileges"... I was publicly reproved in 1997, for having sex after being slipped something in my drink while on a date with a "worldly man". I went to all the meetings, went in regular field service and stopped my "worldly association" after that, I was very sincere about trying to make amends for my bad judgement, although I was allowed to comment after about 6 months, I was never told after that time that I could give talks or presentations or was considered again in good standing. By 2003, I didn't give a rats ass anyway about their opinion.

  • blondie

    Years ago, people were put "on probation." In many ways similar to public/private reproof but with a one year minimum probation period having to report monthly to the elders.


    w72 2/15 p. 126 Questions From Readers ***


    a person who has completed a period of unannounced probation be recommended for appointment as a ministerial servant?

    Regarding ministerial servants 1 Timothy 3:10 says: "Let these be tested as to fitness first, then let them serve as ministers, as they are free from accusation." An individual’s having concluded a stipulated probation period for wrongdoing does not of itself imply that he is "free from accusation." It is not wise to entrust responsibility to such a person too soon. (1 Tim. 5:22) Enough time should have passed for him to establish that he has completely recovered himself from the weakness that was manifested in his wrong act or course. Over a sufficient period of time after the completion of the probation period he should have proved himself to be devoted to righteousness and as having genuine love for Jehovah and for his people. Others should be able to view him as a fine example in Christian conduct. So if he has really built up a fine reputation since completing his probation period, consideration could be given to recommending him to become, not an elder, but first a ministerial servant.


    w67 2/15 p. 127 Avoid the Snare of "Saving Face" ***

    In most cases it is the unrepentant who insist on ‘practicing sin’ that are expelled, disfellowshiped from God’s organization. (1 John 3:4; 1 Cor. 5:11) ‘A man who takes some false step before he is aware of it’ does not fall into the class of such incorrigible sinners. However, there may be occasions, due to the seriousness of the sin, when the congregation committee finds it necessary to place a person on a probation of surveillance, as a helpful, corrective measure. Such probation is not to be viewed as some adverse judgment, something destructive of one’s "honor," a penalty to be bucked against. Rather, it is a loving provision affording him opportunity to prove the sincerity of his repentance and at the same time to help the repentant sinner recover his spirituality and to make him strong again. Kindly counsel given during the probationary period will build the person up so that he will not make a ‘practice’ of sin. Rather than try to "save face" by protesting a probation, and getting others involved emotionally, one who has committed a sin should welcome this loving arrangement leading to his recovery.


    w66 9/1 p. 542 A Provision for Spiritual Help in Times of Need ***

    If the wrong committed was not a public scandal, but serious enough to require discipline, then the erring one can be placed on a probation that is not announced to the congregation. During this time, usually one year, he should be given regular spiritual assistance to overcome his difficulty. Then the probation is lifted, again without announcement to the congregation. What a loving provision of God for truly repentant ones who fall into serious wrongdoing!

    If the sin was grievous and a public scandal, then where mercy is shown, a probation period is again imposed, but this time it is announced to the congregation. Yet in this case, as in an unannounced probation, there is a loving effort to help the erring one.


    w63 7/1 p. 410 What Disfellowshiping Means ***

    If the sin has not caused public notoriety and does not endanger the congregation, the one involved may be placed on probation. The terms of the discipline would be made clear and the one under such surveillance would report to the overseer once each month for the specified period as a loving arrangement to assist the individual to regain himself.

  • jayhawk1

    Watchtower Corp said,

    ... as a loving arrangement to assist the individual...

    It seems to me that anything involving a corrective action must have this catch phrase attached to it in order for it to seem okay. Has anybody else noticed this? It is as if they are saying, "We are shunning you, because we love you and it is a loving arrangement to assist you in spiritual growth."

  • okie46

    yes, Jayhawk, I have always heard the same phrase, that it is a loving arrangement to assist the wayward person. Unfortunately, it does more damage than good in my experience. If you truly love someone and are concerned for their welfare, than you would continue to encourage them by word and deed, cutting them off from association does emotional damage which can cause some to go off the deep end from despair, three people I grew up with have committed suicide after being disfellowshipped. I don't think throwing people out who did something wrong but want to stay in the organization is very loving.

  • LovesDubs

    DFing, marking, public reproof, private reproof....its all a JOKE!

    There was a JW guy that I used to date in 84 who was the reason I became a JW (picked me up in a club) but he was a slime ball from the get go and had about 30 girlfriends in a three state area...and until I came along never got caught doing what he was doing but I narked on him. He and about 25 of his constituents in da Troof were reproved, lost privledges or were DFd altogether. It became a witch hunt with each implicating the next. The trials were heard all the way to Brooklyn. (1984) Nothing happened to me during all this because I wasnt baptized, but I knew damn well what he and I were doing and what he was doing with his other chickas was forbidden fruit, and I was just a study but I was attending meetings and so was "warned" by the elders about what I was involved in...but this guy and his cronies were all BORN in the troof and had zero excuses but knew how to manipulate the system. They all covered for each other too. Disco parties with JW DJs, "Witness Bands", large youth gatherings and trips and club visits...the society put the kabosh on all that stuff directly after this blow out occurred. I was testifying constantly in front of JC after JC for about 3 months. It was insane. He of course...blamed ME for "getting him DFd!! " Told me this years later when they finally reinstated him. It took 5 years to let him back in because nobody believed he was sincere. He cooked his own goose in that regard because he told ME that he knew that all you had to do was "cry enough in front of the elders and they would let you back in." Well...I told the elders he said that so no amount of his crying worked. He'd go to the hall, and he'd laugh and high five people and act like absolutely nothing was different in his world. He was mocking the whole thing.

    After he was reinstated in the 90s, we kept running into each other. We had both married had children and he appeared for all intents to be an upstanding citizen...but I knew better. Some young men in our congregation started to get into trouble for going into Chicago and being out all night and were DFd for hanging out in bars, and with prostitutes. And who took them there? This same guy did! Then in 1997 I discovered him online (he was vain enough to use his own initials and his name in his profile...duh) and he was picking up women in JW chat rooms...his profile said he was "married but not dead"...clue much??? And that he was a JW and that Jehovah was everything to him blah blah blah. Well he didnt know who I was online so I started to talk him up and so did about three other EXJW women I knew in those chats...and lo and behold, not only was he trying to pick them UP but he was totally into S&M, cyberporn, cybersex and he actually would call these women on their phones adn READ porno to them (one said she was eating a cheese sandwich and letting him go on and on and on while she recorded it all) and he wanted to go VISIT them as well! He said he was one of a large group of JW men online with a ring who all shared porn literature and porn sites "right under the Society's nose." We all documented our IMs, chat room logs and phone calls with him. He was married during all this mind you. I was furious!! And this fine upstanding citizen was still a member in good standing in the hall! So...I gathered up this REEM of paperwork and the taped conversations and showed my JW husband. I said you go tell him Im giving this all to the PO he can go himself and confess or Im doing this. Hes YOUR "brother". So my husband talked to him and he said the next day that he had "taken care of it, talked to the PO and was so grateful we had come to him first." Ha....I said I didnt believe him. I said you call the PO and ask him if X talked to him because Im not buying it. And lo and behold..he HADNT seen the PO and after my husband talked to the PO of course the PO wanted anything we had because he said "they had been watching X for awhile." So I gave my husband this large binder of stuff with a cover letter explaining what it all was because most JWs didnt have internet, or AOL or knew what chat rooms were in 1996... The elders met with X and instead of telling him what they HAD they told him to explain to them what he DID...and in the process he told them more than they HAD on him...(he told this all to one of the EXJW women online not knowing she too had turned his ass in) He said to her too...that they didnt know what to do with him because the Society had no "rules" at that point about cybersex and he hadnt actually had sex with anybody...can you believe this???? So he said, they "marked him and had a congregation needs talk about going online...and that his wife didnt believe any of it and thought he had been set up by that beeatch Lovesdubs who was just a spurned and bitter apostate...blah blah blah..." and damned if he didnt get away with it!! He ADMITTED to one of those women that he had cheated on his wife at least five separate times including with her hair dresser and within one month of their MARRIAGE! And that fine upstanding citizen is still in the congregation with full privvies last time I heard. But his wife finally left his ass last year. Perhaps she believes it NOW. You know what he said after all was said and done with the JC? "Man...they totally f-ked up the Superbowl party I was gonna have this weekend."

    Yeah....he's remorseful...."now where's my damn mouse I have BIDNESS to attend to with some sexy SHORTIES online!!!"

  • Seeker4

    That note says "no announcement of restrictions is to be made." That's been true for quite a while.
    The reproof announcment is still made. It used to be "On such and such a date, a judicial committee found it necessary to reprove so and so." Not sure if that's still true.

  • freyd

    It sure is used. And IT CANNOT BE APPEALED. All it amounts to is a public statement of private reproof, and always involves unbiblical restrictions.

  • aquagirl

    One of the reasons that i got disfellowshipped was that i shacked up w/an unbaptised jw..i got the ol' heave ho..he got nutthin!!!!! they didnt even talk to him about it!!!!it was cause he was unbaptised and also that i was more,um,ahem,"experianced",cause id been married.He was a total newbie when it came to carnal matters,but i was a all makes total sense tho,when you consider that women have always been temptresses and whores trying to drag poor innocent boys and men down into their pit w/them.we are supposed to be 'helpmates' to our husbands.hey,i dont remember any protests tho...

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