CO has been coming to my door. Would like 1 or 2 solid and easy arguments.

by The Laser Viking 51 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • The Laser Viking
    The Laser Viking

    Very good suggestion about not seeming too eager to shoot them down.

    I kind of want to get to the heart of the issue:

    How do we know that the WTS is God's organization? Where does it get it's authority? And how does all the change in doctrine, the flip-flopping of policies, and rules that go beyond what the Bible has to say fit into that?So take that I believe in God and the Bible (for the sake of argument), why does a person need to come to JW meetings and be baptized into the org?

    I am not sure how to word that kind of question....

  • joe134cd

    If the goal,is not to appear as a stark raving mad apostate. I would Suggest drawing parallels between the 2 above news articles and the video he asked you to watch. To be honest I have had quite good results with helping dubbies unknowingly to think about TTATT. 1stly they can read it with out closing their minds off as its a news article. 2ndly at face value it has nothing to do with the witnesses. It's not until you start digging beneath the surface that you realise that the issues facing the mormon church are exactly the same with the witnesses. Anyway good luck to you.

  • Listener

    Keep it simple. Tell him you watched the video and that you were shocked as to how they whitewashed their own history and how it was so hard to trust anything they say.


    Don't argue with him, that won't work. Just tell him that you would like to know if a couple of things are still true.

    1) The point in the Walsh trial where Hayden Covington says that JWS must believe false prophecies, and that anyone who doesn't believe the WT magazine is worthy of death as an apostate. ( Read the quotes to him.)

    2) The paragraph in the shepherd the flock book that says, " to be a Jehovah's witness in good standing, you must believe all the teachings unique to Jehovah's witnesses. " (paraphrase)

    3) The 1980s body of elders letter that states "apostasy quote is not believing everything taught by the watch tower.

    then I would also ask what he knows about the Conti case. If he doesn't know anything about it, then educate him. Ask him why the one true religion would refuse to cooperate with the superior authorities, and why a senior member of the governing body would fail to show up to court, even when he was issued a subpoena?


  • opusdei1972

    The video "Faith in Action" tells many half-truths. One of them is the scene in which Rutherford presented the Finished Mystery for the first time at Bethel before many members, then some of them became angry on account of the book, and showed angry against Rutherford. This was a lie propagated by Rutherford and his friends, but if you read the transcription of the 1918 trial, Rutherford confessed that the book was not an issue initially in the dispute with the Society's directors. So, that scene is not historical. However, it was after some time that some Bible Students noted the rubbish written in the Finished Mystery, then some elders rejected its use. Accordingly, Rutherford imposed the acceptance of the book as a requisite to be an elder candidate. This was published in the Watchtower of that time:

    ...the Society has published and is wirlely distributing "The Finished Mystery"-Volume Seven of STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES. There is nothing in it out of harmony with the divine plan as revealed. The doctrines there taught are wholesome and clearly in harmony with that of the Lord Jesus Christ and the other six volumes of STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES. It is a part of the work of the SOCIETY to give this volume a wide distribution, because it is believed the due time has come for the message to be given against Babylon. A teacher that is opposed to the Seventh Volume, therefore, would be opposed to the SOCIETY'S work, out of harmony with the SOCIETY; and, as a leader, such an one would breed discontent and trouble, rather than establish harmony and peace and development among those of the Lord's people who had already expressed themselves as being in harmony with such Seventh Volume. Hence such an one should not stand for election to the position of elder.(The Watchtower, may 01, 1918, article: "Qualification of Elders", page 6220)

  • opusdei1972
    Show him that quote from the Watchtower, and ask him how could that book containing theological rubbish become a requisite for the position of elder???. You may also ask him for those books which are now "old light", namely, false prophecies and wrong medical advices. Show him the absurdities of the Golden Age Magazine. Note that those books (including the Watchtower and the Golden Age Magazine) were sold to many people (because each of those books had prices). So, the Society expanded its richness thanks to the naivety of many credulous guys who believed in lies. So, you may ask him: don't you think that most of the Society's richness exist because of "old lights"?
  • Finkelstein

    Ask him if the WTS is really god's chosen organization why did it use a phony and pretentious dating calculation of mankind's existence of 6000 years from Adam, once in the early 1900's and again in the late 1960's. both being imposable calculations I might add but nevertheless taught as meat in due season. Was it just to use a manipulative scare tactic to lure people to the organization's literature and promote the distribution of that literature ?


    The WTS/JWS is often called a end of the world fear mongering religious cult ....... I wonder why ?

  • Tenacious
    Just tell him you wore out your only shovel so you no longer accept the shit.
  • Splash

    Ask him if the GB brought back the "pyramid inch" would we be compelled to believe it again?

    Ask, if Jesus selected the F&DS in 1919 (and this is no longer all the remnant), who exactly did he choose, and who chose the current F&DS in New York?

    See if he knows that the current definition of Generation is a 200 year period, and why is this different to the Bibles definition of a generation?

    Ask him if he has been disturbed by the incredible number of doctrinal changes over the years, then show him g70 4/22 p. 8 Changes That Disturb People:

    "Yes, millions of persons have been shocked to learn that things they were taught as being vital for salvation are now considered by their church to be wrong. Have you, too, felt discouragement or even despair because of what is happening in your church? A businessman in Colombia expressed the effect the changes have had on many."Tell me," he asked, "how can I have confidence in anything? How can I believe in the Bible, in God, or have faith? Just ten years ago we Catholics had the absolute truth, we put all our faith in this. Now the pope and our priests are telling us this is not the way to believe any more, but we are to believe 'new things.' How do I know the 'new things' will be the truth in five years?"


    I would just ask questions that are "honest" from a "hurting sheep." You have to use "The Columbo" method. ( Watch Columbo if necessary )

    If you don't want to be DF'd, you can't go at these people. They are proud and arrogant people.

    Think about it for a moment. The C.O believes that he is a modern-day apostle Paul. Seriously, that's how deluded these nutters are. Whatever delusions they had before they became dubs, the WTBTS has fed those delusions.

    You have a colossal me-monster on your hands. Remember that false humility is the highest form of conceit.


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