National Healthcare for the USA

by sammielee24 348 Replies latest jw friends

  • sammielee24

    Financing arrangements in different countries

    2.8 An important difference between healthcare systems is the extent to which individuals have private insurance. In the United States, private insurance is the only means of cover for much of the population, whilst in other countries it is held mainly by high income groups who opt out of social insurance coverage. In Canada private insurers are generally prevented from offering coverage that duplicates that provided by the Government, while in the United Kingdom private insurance is held in addition to cover provided by the Government. In France and New Zealand, private insurance is widely used to cover out of pocket payments, such as some prescription costs. Public spending is the lowest in the United States (45 per cent), and private funding therefore makes up more than half of total health expenditure. It is the only country where this is the case - excluding the United States, privately financed healthcare accounts for 23 per cent of the total on average across the other nine countries. 2.10 The methods of public and private financing vary between countries, but are usually a combination of general taxation, social insurance, out of pocket payments and private insurance. The United Kingdom is one of six comparator countries (Australia, Canada, Italy, New Zealand, Sweden) in which general taxes are the main source

    As stated before, pretty well all nationalized healthcare systems incorporate some private insurance care but it still provides everyone with basic medical care equally and across the board regardless of employment, gender, geography etc. Out of pocket expenses may be for things like eye glasses, contact lenses, dental work, cosmetic surgery etc but that also depends on your income level and age. The idea of national healthcare being the cause of 'slacker's or 'wastefulness' is not reasonable given the fact that it is the tax dollars paid by the wage earner that contribute to the system. swife.

  • funkyderek


    funkyderek, do you have any examples of successful implementation of your economic ideas? The list I posted earlier shows many examples of socio-economic success, but they all seem to have taken an almost opposite economic tack than that which you are arguing.

    Almost all markets everywhere since the beginning of time. It works so well so often we don't even notice it. Let's say I sell widgets, and you're looking to buy a widget. I want $20 but you're only willing to pay $10. What can we do? Well, I can lower my price or you can raise yours - or both - until we agree on a price somewhere in between, and we both go away reasonably happy. If we can't agree on a price, I don't sell you the widget. I think I can get a better price for it, and you think you can get a suitable alternative elsewhere, or do without. As we're both rational beings, the price in general will reflect the true value of the widget. But what if I believe I can't make a living selling widgets at the price you want to pay? Well, say I lobby the government and convince them to enact a law fixing the retail price of widgets at $20. Great, right? Now I can make as much money as I think I'm worth. But, what's this? You still can't afford to pay $20 for a widget, so you do without, or try to find one on the black market. Now both of us are unhappy and you're a criminal. What if you, outraged by the high price of widgets lobby the government and manage to get the law changed so that the maximum price of widgets is set at $10? Great for you, right? You skip down to my widget shop clutching your $10 bill only to find I've gone out of business. My break-even point was $14 so the new law put me out of business, and I had to lay off all my staff. You, once again, find yourself widget-less. Governments can fix prices but they can't change the value of a product or service. The only law that should govern pricing - including the price of labour - is the law of supply and demand.

    Unfortunately, people don't seem to do this. We've had plenty of time to test this idea, and it's not happening. I'm sure we (consumers) would boycott more often if we had really good information in front of us when purchasing, but it would take government level organization to even have that information in the first place.

    What are you talking about? Go to your nearest university or student hang-out. Count the posters and flyers telling you to boycott Nestle, McDonalds, Nike, the fur trade, all animal products, anything from Israel, or Burma, or China.

    It's up to governments, not consumers, to take action against the products of foreign companies who "act illegally" (their actions are often not illegal in their own country).

    And they do. The USA essentially boycotts Cuba because of the unethical government there. For the most part, though, free countries are not subject to such sanctions and as long as a company follows the law in whatever countries they operate, they are allowed to trade. It is up to the consumer to decide if they have an ethical problem with any of the company's practices. There is no shortage of information about this subject.

  • LDH
    What would have happened to your well-worked-out plans if your hubby had required extensive re-hospitalisation over the course of a couple of years? Would you still be as smug?

    Perhaps you missed the part where I said we have a $500 per person out of pocket max. That's per calendar year. So god forbid something happens next year, oops, write another check for $500.

    You missed the point. Telling stories proves NOTHING. For every nightmare I can find a bright spot.

    If my arguments are *that* poorly constructed, surely it should take you less than 10 minutes to shred them. Now try to go back, bullet point by bullet point, and address them.


  • sammielee24
    You and all of your friends should have pooled your money to help him.

    There is a moral guide somewhere deep inside most of us, a kindness and compassion that exceeds for most of us, the selfishness and self absorption that are also part of our make up as humans. I suppose the difference is in the story. If your child were beaten, battered and raped on the street you hope the compassion and kindness of others will rise to the occasion and they will step in to help see to her wounds, get her to a hospital and sit with her until they find you. By the compassion and kindness of others may she live. Selfishness is observed when the threat of danger is past yet someone walks past your daughter lying there beaten and battered, believing that it's someone else's problem, someone elses kid, it doesn't affect them so they walk on by. By the selfishness of others she may die. swife.

  • LDH

    Sweet Jesus. Save the drama for your mamma.

  • sammielee24
    The USA essentially boycotts Cuba because of the unethical government there

    What about the unethical governments around the world that are not boycotted by the USA ? I always find the Cuban argument interesting because I've never really understood why it's gone on so long when the issues of sweat shops and the child sex trade are well known and up front in many countries for example, yet we flock to these places dropping our tourist dollars and buy their product including the little kids up for sale by their owners. US citizens can't travel to Cuba but they have no problem taking a trip to China or Taiwan for example. swife.

    <<In the war-by-proxy analysis, Iran is rightly said to be the power and arms supplier behind Hezbollah. But the issue of where Iran’s arms come from has been ignored. China has sold Iran tanks, planes, artillery, cruise, anti-tank, surface-to-surface and anti-aircraft missiles as well as ships and mines. It is also Iran’s main supplier of unconventional arms and is thought by almost all monitors to be illicitly involved in supplying key elements in Iran’s chemical and nuclear weapons programme. This is despite China being a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and the Chemical Weapons Convention.

    China has sold nuclear reactors to Algeria, Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia, and Chinese nuclear weapons designs were found in Libya. It has also negotiated with Syria on the sale of M11 ballistic missiles. China is one of the few global suppliers of ballistic missiles. and can charge a heavy price. It demanded of the Saudis, for instance, to whom it sold CSS2 missiles, payment in cash, ensuring both the cementing of a key strategic relationship and total deniability of the sale. >>

  • hemp lover
    hemp lover

    "Perhaps you missed the part where I said we have a $500 per person out of pocket max. That's per calendar year. So god forbid something happens next year, oops, write another check for $500."

    This doesn't exactly follow the example of what happened to Rabbit's friend. If, because your husband had to be continually hospitalized over the course of a couple of years, his employer terminated him and again because of his illness, he couldn't find a job with comparable benefits, then what?

    Sometimes bright spots turn to nightmares, despite well-thought-out planning. Stories DO matter to those of us who choose not to dismiss them.

    -HL of the "I have incredible insurance but can't afford to add my daughter" class

  • sammielee24
    Sweet Jesus. Save the drama for your mamma.

    Unfortunately my 'mamma' is dying. She has enough drama of her own right at this moment but thanks for caring - I'll be sure to pass on your well wishes. Thank you. sammieswife.

  • hamsterbait

    Compare what the govern-mental authorities spend on:

    armaments, entertaining, security, publicity, army, navy, police, fire, prisons.

    What would an NHS bill add up to in comparison?

    How much is spent on healthcare for jailed pedos, rapists, murderors and other scum of the earth each year.

    So your little girl is molested, but you cannot afford to pay for healthcare while she is dying from AIDS the pervert gave her.

    Yet he gets to die in state-supported palliative comfort, while your child has to make do with charity, and the cheapest and minimal pain relief.

    Something stinks here.


  • LDH
    If, because your husband had to be continually hospitalized over the course of a couple of years, his employer terminated him and again because of his illness, he couldn't find a job with comparable benefits, then what?

    If I take you at your word, which I am prone to believe there are plenty of exaggerated sob stories on this thread, he would have been eligible for disability. I won't even get into FMLA and the employer's own disability policy.

    swife, you are just full of bad new stories, aren't you? Perhaps you are creating your own maelstrom of chaos. If I had said "save the drama for your third cousin twice removed" you would have told me that your "cousin" died last week while tragically falling under a tractor wheel at work, and since he had no insurance everyone just left him there to rot.

    As I mentioned on the other thread, I have been able to help MANY people who thought they had no options.

    As an example, here ya go HL You said you can't afford to add your kid to your plan.

    What is the cost?

    Children's Medicaid is health insurance provided at no cost to the children of families who qualify. Coverage begins as soon as the application is approved.

    CHIP is health insurance designed for families who earn too much money to qualify for Medicaid, yet cannot afford to buy private health insurance. CHIP enrollment fees and co-payments are based on the number of people in the family and the family's income and assets. Enrollment fees do not exceed $50 for each six-month term of eligibility and most co-payments for doctor visits and prescription drugs range from $3 to $10.

    Who qualifies?
    » Income guidelines for CHIP » State Kids Insurance Program – SKIP

    Any adult who lives with an uninsured child and provides care for that child can apply. This includes parents, step-parents, grandparents, other relatives, legal guardians or adult brothers or sisters.

    To qualify for CHIP or Children's Medicaid, a child must be under age 19, a Texas resident and a U.S. citizen or legal permanent resident. The citizenship or immigration status of the parents does not affect the children's eligibility and is not reported on the application form * .

    * To qualify for Children's Medicaid, the child must be living in a family with assets below established levels. Assets do not include the family's home or personal property. In determining income eligibility, deductions for work-related expenses and dependent care expenses are allowed.

    Families enrolling in CHIP for the first time, or re-enrolling because of a lapse in coverage, will have a 90-daywaiting period before the benefits can be used. There are some exceptions to this rule.

    Children must be uninsured for at least 90 days to enroll in CHIP.

    Exceptions to 90-Day Waiting Period

    All children would be subject to the waiting period except for children:

    • Who lost insurance coverage because:
      • Their parent's employment was terminated due to a layoff, reduction-in-force, or the closure of a business
      • Their insurance benefits under the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 (COBRA) were terminated
      • The marital status of a child's parent changed
      • Their parent's employer terminated dependent coverage
    • No longer covered by insurance provided by the Texas Employees Retirement System (ERS) or CHIP in another state
    • Whose previous health insurance coverage cost more than 10 percent of the family's gross income
    • Decertified from the Medicaid Program and determined eligible for CHIP by Health and Human Services Commission (HHSC)
    • Added to currently enrolled accounts, including newborns
    • Un-enrolled for failure to renew, but who successfully complete their renewal by the deadline for processing renewals in the month after their 6th month of coverage

    A family's size, income and assets determine whether the children qualify for Children's Medicaid or CHIP.

    » View the income guideline chart

    Income Guidelines for CHIP/Children's Medicaid *
    May Qualify for Children's MedicaidMay Qualify for CHIP
    Family MembersAnnual Family IncomeAnnual Family Income

    * Some expenses such as childcare or disabled adult care may be deductible.

    If you are an employee of the State of Texas, you may qualify for an insurance supplement for your dependent children under age 19 through the State Kids Insurance Program – SKIP.


    Use the current programs before you try to invent others Class

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