by listen 149 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
To this we say, The rule book is the Bible. Do we just throw that out? The two witness rule is actually a very good rule. In many cases critics do not realize just what the two witness rule entails.
As long as mindless borgs like you justify this rule, yes, the WT is and will be a safe haven for child molesters.
I am not an apologist but [...] And after all, isn't that what you would expect from an organization directed by the God that is love and the Most High over all, Jehovah.
PUKE ALERT!!!!!!!!!!
How about some proof that JWs do not have the best child abuse policy of any religion.
For that simply reffer to Silent Lambs and Love & Norris attorneys. Denial of child abuse is not "proof" that it is not happening but it is proof that it is not being reported to the police...as should be in any criminal case.
When you actually bring up proof that contradicts the WT's policy then I will see if I can address it. Otherwise I will just be copying and pasting what I have already written
Okay thirdwitness, I lived it.
Set the wayback machine to 1989. A circuit overseer (Frank Nicholson serving the Circuit No. 13 in 1989) sat in my living room and told me in no uncertain terms that (1) I needed 2 eyewitnesses who not only saw my father rape me when I was pre-school age, they had to stand and watch without interference; (2) those same 2 eyewitnesses had to be baptized Jehovah's Witnesses (preferably in good standing). If they were not, then their testimony was irrelevent since (and I quote) "you know how worldly people lie".
I mentioned that I had spoken with my mother's sister and my father's mother, who both not only confirmed the memories I had of my father and grandfather, but added quite a bit more. They both said they were willing to make a statement to the elders in my congregation. This CO, appointed by holy spirit, told me that if I "don't shut up right now about this nonsense [he] would see to it personally that [I] was disfellowshipped."
My father was, and still is, a ministerial servant. I made so much noise about my father, he finally moved to a different congregation. When that body of elders read my letter they voted unanimously against my father's appointment as a ministerial servant. This circuit overseer, Frank Nicholson, appointed by holy spirit, overrode their vote and personally appointed my father a servant. I was told this by one of the elders in that meeting.
In the "Flock" book (pages 110-112 if memory serves), elders are instructed that the testimony of minor children can be disregarded, and that the testimony of unbeleiving "worldly" people, can be disregarded. I also note that the instruction of two witnesses is left deliberately open to interpretation. Do those two witnesses include the victim or not? I was told they do not. Others have told me that they were told it does. The Society is deliberately fuzzy on this very important point. Why is that?
And while I'm on the subject of two witnesses, please tell me HOW in God's name does any reasonable person expect 2 adults to stand and watch a child being raped without doing anyting to stop it? How many times do you honestly believe a child is sexually assaulted while in front of a crowd? Do you really think this sort of crime happens on the 50 yard line with 90,000 people in the crowd cheering? Jesus Christ, what an asinine and idiotic teaching!
thirdwitness please show me ONE scripture where Jehovah God instructs that a child being sexually assaulted must have 2 witnesses. Tell me please, as I scoured the Bible and found none. And while you're at it, please tell me why Jehovah allowed a woman being raped to simply scream as her only protection, but did not provide the same protection for an innocent child. And please tell me who would have heard that woman scream while she was being raped in the field? How do we know she actually screamed? Does she have 2 witnesses who heard her scream?
17 years ago I demanded answers from 9 elders, 2 circuit oversers, 1 district overseer before writing a letter to the Society. Not one of them could answer these questions bibically. I'm from Missouri: show me. Show me where a child MUST have 2 eyewitnesses, 2 adults who are required to stand and watch the assault and do nothing. And while you're at it, please tell me why I should consider this rule to be a loving provision from Jehovah.
Silence is deafening.
For those who want to know the truth they will have to read the blog. I see that some just keep on saying the same thing disregarding the documented proof. Let me end the deafening silence by saying:
READ THE BLOG.
I read the blog. You are a disgusting, vile, low excuse for a human being. You accuse those who were raped and brutalized as children of being liars, even labelling Sara Poisson's example as "poissonous lies." You defend an organization that leaves the door open for more rape and brutality of children as having the "best" policy of all religions... when they don't even have a set protocol, other than "meet with the accused, and accuser separately, then meet with them together." While every one of the church policies cited, (except Watchtower,) requires mandatory reporting and background checks for all leaders. Most churches also have leader training and seminars on how to properly and legally handle these matters, whereas JW "training" is a 2 minute sidenote paragraph at elder's school once every few years. Disgusting.
You also have the nerve to write in your blog, and come on here and tell us that nearly all of the incidents that happened to us personally that contradict the woefully inadequate "policy" of the WT are really just lies, distorted personal experiences or faulty memory. Fine, I'll add my faulty memory to the mix: Being threatened with judicial action by one of the fine Elders for warning a sister that the brother who was being so friendly with holding her 4 y.o. daughter on his lap and taking her to bathroom was a convicted child rapist. She was horrified that nobody had told her. Yet the elders were more concerned that I do not spread "gossip." How is it gossip when he raped my friend and tried to fondle me?
But that's just one more "lie" and "distorted" personal experience for you to discount.
It people like you that make "Jehovah's" organization stinking, and rottenous down to its core. People who defend an organization who hides the most vile, revolting people in the corners and says it is doing what is right. People who think it's okay for not one, not two, or even three molestors to be acceptable association in my home congregation, but FOUR. Four "known" child molestors in my home congregation. One of them is the father of a poster here. That poster tells me that the elders were informed directly of this molestor. Yet no parent was ever warned of yet another child rapist in their midst.
GREAT policy. Yet that will never convince people like you with your blogs, who are so convinced that you have the "truth," that you can never see the filth and destruction you wallow in, all the while screeching to anyone who will listen how "RIGHT" your perverted policies are and how much you are "protected."
The only thing you are protected from is the hot sun of truth beating on the sand that covers your buried head.
Please answer Big Tex. All JW apologists like you owe him at least that much. Strange how your so-called "loving" religion has created an abnormal aversion to true righteousness and in it's place is apathy and callousness towards victims.
The last elder that tried to force that garbage down my throat was told that I have decided to "quit touching the unclean thing", and that was the Watchtower and all those that supported her rotten, stinking policies. I'm glad that any lurkers will get to see the true JW thinking when reading this thread.
It'd be nice if he answered AlanF's simple question too.
I have a problem with people who use such phrases as "Typical JW bull#$%"
Address the issues, don't attack the person. Such comments only weaken your position.
I'm inactive because I simply have huge doubts. Not only about JW's but all religion in general. There are too many inconsistencies with all religions. I doubt the Bible itself and on some points, my sense of fairness makes me disagree with it. But I really don't like it when people are so quick to accuse. The man showed an article that makes many valid points and in reading all of the posts here I haven't seen anyone come up with a good objection to it. I don't believe the JW organization is guilty of hiding and protecting child molesters.
That being said I have to ask the person who posted this article if you are a Witness, because, if you are, you are being disobedient by being on this site and speaking to people who are ex JW's. Most witnesses do not follow all of the rules. That's called hypocracy. I chose to quit going to the hall and proclaiming myself a Witness rather than be a hypocrit.
thirdwitness said:
: Rhetoric rheteric and more retoric no matter how you spell it. How about some proof that JWs do not have the best child abuse policy of any religion.
I ask again, What would you accept as proof? If you fail to answer this question, you will have no credibility on this forum. Surely you can manage this simple task -- unless, of course, you know (as we all do) that your "challenge" is completely hollow.
AlanF
