by sammielee24 74 Replies latest jw experiences
"But thus I counsel you, my friends: Mistrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful. They are people of a low sort and stock; the hangman and the bloodhound look out of their faces. Mistrust all who talk much of their justice! Verily, their souls lack more than honey. And when they call themselves the good and the just, do not forget that they would be pharisees, if only they had-- power."
http://quotes.onlinereference.info/index.php/Friedrich_Nietzsche
S
Can't save those children, but are there children we could help?
The problem with children living with mentally unstable family members, is that often it goes underground and thus unnoticed. The terror of living in a household with an unstable parent or sibling is only one part of the equation - the constant fear, the shame, humiliation and guilt becomes a shadow. In many cases where there is mental instability or illness, there will be verbal, physical and/or emotional abuse, possibly sexual abuse and in some cases the additional burden of addiction. Who knows what the answer is? Education? Awareness? Communication? sammieswife.
sammielee, I guess it's trying to be more alert and proactive to families around us. Obviously, we can't save everyone; but doing nothing is not the answer either. There are many groups out there doing good work in helping children. I worked with one organization for several years with "delinquent" teenagers. I could not help everyone, but some were able to take hold of the help and help themselves.
I am a child of an abusive home and I survived because my teachers reached out to me.
Could those children have been "saved"? I don't know all the circumstances, but I do know that too many people see the abuse and do nothing. In my opinion, those people are just as guilty as those who actively abuse, maybe more.
Blondie (abuse survivor)
Proactive things we can do:
Vote for politicians more likely to treat mental health issues seriously. Let politicians in office know that you expect the lowest members of society (the mentally ill) to be given attention.
And fight bad beliefs! Three women in Texas in the past two years have killed their children in horrific ways (one hacked the arms off of her baby at the shoulders) because they were delusional and psychotic and THEY BELIEVED TOO LITERALLY IN THE STORIES OF THE BIBLE.
Sorry for shouting, but the bible beliefs were key to the harm they did to their children. A person who believes in rational thought may still go insane, but they are imo far less likely to believe that that is really God or Satan talking to them. They are far more likely to say to themselves "shit, I'm going crazy here, hearing voices, seeing things, I better see a doctor".
All four of these women in Texas were heavily influence by their religious beliefs to do what they did.
but what is the positive outcome for Andrea Yates or others like her? I
I think .....and this may have been brought out.........that
we can learn alot from this to help others in similar situations. We are only going to heal a sickness if we understand it, recognize it in people and react in positive ways to keep bad things from happening. I suppose all the shrinks and judges and juries could pick her brain and her mental thinking and decide she was very ill and was not t hinking rationally ........then kill her
but how much better to be a responsible society and understand and learn from all this so it does not happen again.
We could kill all the murderers in the world we want.........but that does not stop us from continueing to have murderers.
I have 5 children myself.
purps
I think insanity should not preclude punishment. If you want your epitaph to be "convicted murderer, but insane at the time, so please forgive", fine. But if you go nuts once, and you have long standing medical problems, you likely will commit the same offence again-or similar. Punish killers for their crimes. If they were insane, give them some nice drug so that when the killer cocktail hits, they won't suffer. I don't need vengence-but justice does not allow a killer, likely to re-offend ---OUT. Does not allow a person who could kill-under any circumstances-her own children to ever have the chance to even see another child again. Much LESS have one. I don't think she was insane any more than anyone with 5 kids is. That anyone with kids at all is. Post partum depression should be treated, and we can blame the husband all day if you want for his part-but SHE killed her CHILDREN. I had PPD with my 2nd, and I can sympathize with the weird things that go through ones brain, but PPD and insanity are not the same. Personal responsibility and rational thought don't disappear. She was overwhelmed, and wanted out of it, figured she was a prisoner anyway and took her chances. I see that she bet right. Kind of sad that our legal system is so predictable that a woman could do that knowing (and we all KNOW she knew) she could likely get away with it. AAAARRRRGGGHHH.
Looking at my little boy, who is six and has grown about 3 inches in the last six weeks, my beautiful talented 14 year old and my handsome, future american idol 18 year old I admit to being absolutely overwhelmed, scared, sad, and frustrated at times. But if the switch that makes the rest of us ask for help or simply step outside for some fresh air(even if that step outside lasts a few HOURS) is missing, you can't get it back . A person who has so little conscience about *that* will never be a person that should be in any society. And why punish with eternal shunning by society? Put her out of her obvious misery-If she isn't miserable for the rest of her life she doesn't DESERVE to live and if she is miserable, I don't know how she could even WANT to live. She is known to have done this horrible thing to her beautiful little ones. I am not proposing a Witch dunk solution-but hell, what is the purpose of her being alive on this earth?
JWdaugther you managed to say what I was thinking but so much more precise. Thank you. I'm still really upset about watching her on the video last night. sammieswife.
"I don't think she was insane any more than anyone with 5 kids is."
And that tells us all we need to know about your thought process.
It is comforting to know that some have agreed or share how I feel on this subject but have expressed themselves in a respectful manner just as I think I had when I posted my thoghts on the subject on this this thread. JW daughter and sammilee to name a few examples. I don't have any sympathy for Andrea because I can't understand how she could have murdered her 5 childen one by one, yet I am not referring to our justice system, or what is the correct punishment for those that are insane. I am speaking because I am a mother, and I am very close with my children. I cannot comprehend what she did, I know I am beating a dead horse. But because one person in particular seems so offended by those who have made comments similiar to mine and my comments, I just can't be intimidated to express how I feel. I am not speaking of the laws of the land, just my feelings because I am a mother. I wanted to her to be punished far more than what the outcome was because I am a mother. I feel as though she should suffer more for what she did because I am a mother. IAM A MOTHER FOR GOODNESS SAKE and I am sure alot of mothers (OK, who are sane) would feel the same way I do.
Nikki
Nikki
I really appreciated your post. There are many of us who still have a natural sense of right and wrong. Many on this site, who I think are having a backlash experience after many years of WTS suffocation, don't seem to want to come right out and call anything right or wrong. We've got a few on here who fervently believe that there is no "good & evil".
It is easy to be intimidated by those who fall into the above way of thinking. For one thing, they all assume on air of intellectual superiority. Don't let them put you on the defensive. Many of them, I think, are good folks. I just don't feel that their pendulum has stopped swinging.
By the way, when I left the org. I also jettisoned a belief in a "god". But I did not shed my instinctive belief in right and wrong. Intellectuals believe that the more you resist your instincts the smarter you are.
