She's Back! With a question about guns & JWs

by asleif_dufansdottir 63 Replies latest jw friends

  • Justice-One
    Justice-One


    I was raised as a JW, and I also grew up around firearms. My Dad was not a JW, and had been a rifle instructor in WW2. We also lived on a farm. Some of my earliest memories are of my Dad teaching me how to handle a rifle. Needless to say, I was taught some serious respect for these tools. Respect that I passed on to my three sons. And I might add that they like their old man, can also put a round in a fleas butt at two hundred meters. Not to mention put rounds on target at Camp Perry distances. (That's 1000 meters for all the non gun-nuts.)

    Some of the finest people I have met in my life loved firearms. They also loved using them for sport, and for food. And most understood the meaning of the 2nd amendment. They understood that an unarmed populace is at the mercy of it's government. For the most part, I have always felt safer around armed people. In my humble opinion large groups of unarmed people are just potential killing fields for the deranged. I remember once telling someone about a large gun show I had went to. I told them there must have been a hundred thousand guns there, and 20 thousand people to look at and buy them. He said "my God, wern't you worried about someone starting to shoot?" I replied that "I had never felt safer. If some nut did decide to open up, the return fire was going to be a bitch." I have been to hundreds of gun shows in my life, and never once did I run into anyone that I would fear turning my back on.

    I have legally carried a firearm for more than ten years. During that time I only came close to having to produce my wep just one time. Just the fact that the bad guy KNEW what my hand must have been on when I put it under my coat and next to my right kidney, was enough for him to decide that the pickings must be better somewhere else. (He took his hand that he had just put into HIS coat out very slowly, and took off runing.) In my opinion I have a biblical duty to protect myself and my family. To those that say this might make me bloodguilty, I say that NOT having a firearm could also do that. If I could have had the means to protect my family, but did not do it, and they died, I WOULD be bloodguilty. Not to mention the fact that I could no longer live with myself.

    Some people probably should not own firearms. These would be the people that think just having this tool, without being trained to use it is going to make them safe. If you have a firearm, you need to know how to use it, and you need to have decided well in advance that you would use it if you or your family were faced with death or great bodily harm from some bad guy. Personally I shoot thousands of rounds per year in practice and fun, and have attended the Gunsite Firearms Accademy. I take the defense of my family very seriously.

    I held these views even when I was a "true believer" of the JW's. On one occasion a brother tried to get me in trouble with the Elders because he told them I had "guns that wern't for hunting." He was told this was none of his business, and that if I wanted to have guns for self-defense that was a conscious matter for me. I believe this is still how the Borg feel. But I'm glad to say I don't care what they think anymore.

  • Justice-One
    Justice-One

    There is a big difference between murder and killing. Some people NEED to be killed.

  • asleif_dufansdottir
    asleif_dufansdottir

    Just in case anybody doesn't already know this, a private citizen is not allowed to shoot in defense of property. If I catch someone breaking into my car, and they make no move to attack *me*, I am not justified in shooting them (even if I was inclined to shoot someone over "stuff").

    Some states have "castle doctrine" laws which allows people to shoot intruders without first having made every effort to retreat.

    A person is only justified in the eyes of the law, in shooting another, if someone is threatening you with bodily harm, you are in fear for your life, and the attacker has the means and the opportunity to do so (if you're up on a second story balcony and somebody on the ground says, "I'm going to kill you", but does not have the ability to reach you or any type of weapon that could hurt you, it's not a justified shoot).

    Most of us who have left the JWs have learned that meekly submitting to a bully or an attacker will only show them they can hurt you without fearing the consequences.

  • Justice-One
    Justice-One

    For those that feel that less or no guns would be better, maybe you should read the book by the title of "More Guns, Less Crime." The bottom line is that firearms enable the weak to defend themselves from the strong.

  • Justice-One
    Justice-One

    No, the world would not be a safer place without firearms. As I stated before, arms allow the weak to protect themselves from the strong. Grandma with a .45 is still a match for any bad guy. And just what do you think would happen if by some magic spell all the guns in the world were to just disappear over night? The Genie is out of the bag my friend. Guns in a simple form (and the propellents) are easy to make.

  • Justice-One
    Justice-One

    Insanity? Well yes, but on who's part? I LOVE life, and have sworn to protect and defend it. Firearms are a fact of life in the real world. Would you prefer only bad men have them?

  • Justice-One
    Justice-One

    You know you really should get a few facts from places other than anti gun sources. Do you have ANY idea how many people have died in the last 100 years, because they had no means to defend themselves? Ever heard of "The Killing Fields?" Or some of the other mass murders done by other governments....after they disarmed their people? You really should look into this, and take off your rose colored glasses. But looking back on your previous comments lead me to believe that we need to disagree on this one. Thank God that in my country I have the right to my opinion, and to bear arms. You also have the right to your opinion, and to not bear arms. To each his own. I only hope that sometime in the future you are not under a table somewhere saying to yourself...."I only wish I had a gun."

  • Justice-One
    Justice-One

    The difference my friend is that I live in the real world. I'm not sure where you live, but it seems to be a place where things are the way you wish they were - not as they are. You are the one who needs to educate himself, not me.

    WW2...give me a break. Yeah, we should have just let Hitler take over the world. For God's sake get a grip.

    I know that I'm not going to convert you. You need to do that for yourself. And heaven knows that your arguments have no effect on me. (Nor any other logical thinking person...that THINKS his way through problems, and does not FEEL his way through them.) But please quit saying that my position is idiotic. I have not attacked your intellect. I have only questioned the childlike way you look at things.

  • John Doe
    John Doe
    Look, simple basic question for you guys:

    Would the world be a safer place with or without guns? Answer of course is yes the world would be safer without guns period. No ifs ands or buts about it.

    Why is this so difficult? Because I feel that deep down people have an itch to fire a gun. Case in point, myself. 5 years ago I was shot while acquring my own property from a warehouse. I sued the person who thought they were being john law stopping a crime. The person did not realize that the flashlight in my hand was not a gun. This person is now doing time for attempted murder instead of being labeled a hero for stopping a would be robbery. This is all because they had a gun and not a phone in their hand.

    With love, that is my heart on this matter.

    John

    You have an unreasonable fear of guns, John. Let me make sure I'm understanding your argument. If people do not have guns, they will be more apt to obey laws and less apt to injure others? Is this correct? What is your basis for this position, other than irrational fear?

  • Justice-One
    Justice-One

    Now you are really showing just how smart you are. Do any research AT ALL, (Maybe read the Federalist Papers and Anti-Federalist Papers. Or almost ANY of the founding fathers writtings) and you will KNOW that the 2nd Amendment conveys the RIGHT for me to keep and bear arms. I have no intention to debate this with you, as it is not debatable.

    Your type just drives me nuts. You see the world through such small eyes. I'm sorry you were shot (BTW, IF the guy is serving time their was probably more to the story than you told. Lacking INTENT I seriouly doubt the jail time.) but that does not give you any special rights, nor allow you to take (or try to take) mine away.

    Have the courts infringed on this right? Yes they have, but that does not make it constitutional? Maybe when Bush is done with the Supreme Court this will change.

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