It's not loving it's mental and physical abuse. Taking someone's children, parents, or loved ones from them to make them be apart of something that they don't believe in is plain old black-mail and it's cruel.
Please explain how disfellowshipping is a loving gesture
I like this definition of extortion. It's exactly what the Tower is doing.
Main Entry: ex·tort
Function: transitive verb
Pronunciation: ik-'sto rt
Etymology: Latin extortus, past participle of extorquere to wrench out, extort, from ex- + torquere to twist -- more at TORTURE
: to obtain from a person by force, intimidation, or undue or illegal power : WRING ; also : to gain especially by ingenuity or compelling argument
It's like a time-out you give children who have been bad and have to sit in the corner. No one is allowed to talk to you until they think you have been
- punished enough
- are sorry for what you did
- jump through hoops to prove you want to really come back and be good
- realize that if you continue to do bad things they will leave you in the corner - no food, no family and no frieds
the above was the explanation given to me and in fairness would have been along the same lines that i would have used as an explanation..and it got me thinking.....
if a child does something wrong then it may be necessary to do something beyond just accepting their word that they are sorry and they wont do it again. in order to impress on their minds they may have to be punished somehow and children have different forms of punishment that work for them and all parents know this....so lets say that a child is told he cannot get to play on his play station for a week...that is agony for a child but it is hardly life threatening...and at the end of the week when dad says to his boy 'heres your playstation now come and give your dad a hug' then the child will do so..the punishment has not been excessive and other forms of affection have not been withdrawn so the child feels the discipline and learns from it.
but lets say that the parent decides to lock the child in his room...removes all his toys, doesnt let him see his siblings, friends, cant phone them, text them, im them, is not allowed to eat with the family..he is still fed but eats in his locked room and is only allowed out to go to school where he is dropped off and picked up so he doesnt integrate with anyone..lets say that this goes on for some months until eventually he tells his parents he is sorry and he wont do it again and pleads for them to allow him out of his 'prison'. but they say no it isnt long enough...and so he throws a tantrum kicking the door and beating the walls in frustration and so his parents say well that will be another month then...it will not be too long before the child 'learns his lesson'...he will be completely broken and as a result will be let out of his room...and his dad says 'come here and give me a hug to show how much i love you'....and the child says...yeah right!!!
i dont know a kinder family than mine...they would do anything for anyone..they are not interested in scoring points,in one-upmanship, in keeping up with the joneses, they are not concerned with material possessions, they would go out of their way to help someone old or young, jw or not, male or female, black or white, who needs help physically, emotional, spiritual, financial (where poss) help. and probably your family is the same...probably cordelias family is like that, and merrys, and most others...
but any religion that dictates that my loving kind family must treat me the way they did despite the fact that they knew i was sorry, willing to fix things, determined never to allow certain situations to develop again, and ultimately suicidal....CANNOT POSSIBLY BE THE TRUTH
tijkmo...its not the words of our enemies we remember...its the silence of our friends
I was married for 10 years to a man that abused me. I studied with the witnesses and got baptised. My ex gave me grounds for scriptual divorce. With five small children, newly baptised (which means I had no longer had worldly friends.........and thought my family was evil ......as they did not respond to the truth) My ex abandoned us financially, I had to go to welfare....moved from a huge house with a fenced yard, to a small two bedroom duplex.
My health was failing as I was up all night worrying about how I was going to feed my children, pay the bills, overcome the loss of a marriage, etc. etc. Plus do all this with the self-esteem of fungus. Also, trying to get to meetings with 5 kids........took all day to get ready for a meeting.
The government said they would cut off my food assistance if I did not go to work when my youngest reached 2 yrs old.......so now I had to leave home.........get babysitting.......
My stepdad commited suicide........it was the straw that broke the camels back. The demands from my mother were too burdensome, she lived about 150 miles from me......and I was trying to care for her too.
I began drinking.........I was 27 years old! No husband, no friends......(you dont get asked to do much with 5 small kids) no money........struggling.........anyway..........I committed fornication
and was disfellowshipped. My death sentence. We all were sentenced to death...........myself and my kids. The scourge from the bottom of the earth. Not worthy, undeserving, a sinner, the great tribulation/Armegeddon could start any second..........PANIC.....FEAR.............constantly, never.......never .......never leaving me.
So now on top of all the other problems in life I was dealing with I had this.
I worked through it all for 9 years and got reinstated. What was I thinking? I totally bought the whole program.......hook, line and sinker.
The org.........is almost so selfish in the thinking of DF. Lets just throw want we don't want.......can't deal with, don't understand, don't want..........OUT! for someone else to deal with. So many heal and really learn love when they are thrown out......maybe in that way DF is loving.........
My problem in and if itself is not with the disfellowshiping, it is how it is done. Less face facts, most if not all organizations have some way of punishing people who do not follow the rules. Some of these are gangs, clubs, government and faternities. WE all know this to be fact. For instance if a person committs a crime is this country or any or most countries they can be fine throw in Jail(solitary confinement). Heck some countries even still stone people for adultry and sex before marriage. HOWEVER - the problem I have is the case and the facts should be know. The court cases in the bible were tried at the city gate, so that all onlookers would now wither justice was being served. In the case of disfellowingshipping it is done in a back room with just you and three elders or more. No recordings are anything is allow to really know what took place in the meeting. Therefore some people get DF because they get nervous or even bullied.
Re: Please explain how disfellowshipping is a loving gesture?
Answer: It is not! This measure is often used for control and in some cases, revenge by the Elders. This whole method is taken out of context. The really big problem with JWs anyway is the lack of or desire to "think for yourself." These are simple robots directed by the latest orders from New York. Everyone LIKES to be told what to do. They feel like they belong and don't want to answer the really hard questions! When you do ask the tough questions, you pay the price of "disfellowshipping." -----IT IS A FACT!!!!
your explanation is right on, Tijkmo.
There might be an argument that, if done exactly as outlined in the elder's manual, DF'ing could serve the purpose of the "time out" - as a disciplinary tool used out of love with the individual's best interests at heart. I'm not making that argument.
But in practice, DF'ing is a deadly weapon in the hands of ignorant, pompous, vindictive, power-hungry men who take delight in making examples out of people and breaking their will.
If you severely beat a child into absolute submission while he begs for mercy and forgiveness and sincerely apologizes for committing a wrong - what does that make you?