Do we have non-Biblical evidence that Jesus Christ existed?

by Inquisitor 64 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Inquisitor

  What non-Biblical, historical evidence proves or supports the notion that Jesus once existed as a living, breathing Jewish man?

  I'll start with the one that I used to swear by back when I was a good JW.

  The Roman historian Suetonius (c. 69-140 C.E.), in his history The Twelve Caesars, stated regarding the emperor Claudius: "Because the Jews at Rome caused continuous disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [Christ], he expelled them from the city."... Note that Suetonius expresses no doubt about the existence of Christ - Mankind's Search for God by WTS p.237

  Suetonius' quote is not entirely bullet-proof though. Peacefulpete raised this in his recent thread ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/114957/1.ashx ) where he draws our attention to the fact that Chrestus doesn't necessarily mean "Christ" as many Christians would like to think. In fact he asserts that it doesn't mean a Christ, let alone Christ Jesus.

  Does anyone know if there are other problems with this quote of Suetonius other than the Chrestus dispute?

  Are there any other historical records to prove Jesus once lived?

  INQ
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  the_classicist

  Not until long after he died. Pliny mentions that he was executed under Pontius Pilate in his letter to Emperor Trajan about the rise of the Christians and the decrease of worship in pagan temples. Tacitus also mentions the Christians. Nothing contemporary, though (hey, the bible's not even contemporary).
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  under_believer

  I highly recommend reading this Wikipedia article, which gives the subject a very good treatment and is a great starting point for research into this subject.
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  Satanus

  Contemporary secular evidence, there is none. Later secular 'evidence' does not fill even one page.

  S
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  peacefulpete

  Honestly there is no evidence a man named Jesus of Nazareth existed to start the new faith. The few late secular quotes that are clearly a reference to the character are either likely Christian interpolations, or simply the secular writer repeating the story as told by Christians. This is not to say that such a person could not have existed but honest assessment brings nothing to support it. But then just what are we looking for? The name Jesus was apparently an honorary moniker not a personal name originally. Nazareth was not a city at the time of Herod the Great but was a mistranslation of Nazarene or some such thing. So what we have is a nameless man living somewhere in the greater Palestine region who may have been killed by Pilate. Or was it Herod? Or did he survive? The Church Fathers couldn't decide. Its much more likely that the depictions of Jesus are the result of distorted memories of various historical charactors, OT rewriting, and idealizations of a miracle working godman roled into one.
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  Dave_T

  Isn't it funny? So many people willing to sacrifice everything they have for works of fiction...
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  Terry

  What we know we do have is a chain of document tampering by pious frauds.

  I'll draw a contemporary analogy.

  The Book of Mormon as seen today bears hardly any resemblance to the Book of Mormon as transcribed from the mouth of Joseph Smith!

  The language, the syntax, the ideas have been "corrected" to appear educated an knowledgable. to hide and explain away errors, inconsistancies, false prophecy and illegality that the innocent person who encounters Mormons is unaware what has historically transpired.

  As a consequence, today's householder confronts what he IS PRESENTED WITH and assumes it represents an actual truth.

  The same is true of the Bible.

  It has been transmitted and transmuted over time by hands eager to make it shape into something other than what it was before they touched it.

  Spurious passages have been added to Josephus to bolster the existence of Jesus Christ as an historical personage.

  No historical document from antiquity has escaped the alterations of pious frauds.
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  XJW4EVR

  And exactly home much "contemporary" evidence is there that Alexander the Great existed? or Julius Cesar? Please show me the proof.
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  Dave_T

  Plenty of it, buddy. How can you even ask that!?
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  Terry

  And exactly home much "contemporary" evidence is there that Alexander the Great existed? or Julius Cesar? Please show me the proof.

  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  2.The rest of the world had a different language, philosophy, art and ethos.

  3.Alexander led his troops against these countries. When he was finished there were sudden palpable changes.

  4.The countries conquered by Alexander and his troop suddenly changed their language, philosophy, art and ethos from the impact.

  5.The generals who served under Alexander who succeeded him fought amongst themselves to rule and history from that point dramatically transformed nations, tribes and tongues. The Ptolemies ran Egypt. Cleopatra was Greek. (All seven Cleopatras!)

  6.The Romans imitated the successes of the Greeks because Alexander's success was the supreme achievement of the ages.

  7.By the time the Judeo-Christian world unfurls the philosophy of Plato and neo-Platonism has permeated even Judaism and Christianity.

  8.Jews as a peopled stopped speaking the language they viewed as the sacred language of God! The started speaking Greek! Why? It was more precise and needed to describe the transformations that had erupted due to Alexander.

  9.The first internationally recognised Jewish bible was in Greek!

  10.There are busts, coins, writings and blue-eyed blonde babies in previously insular geographical locations.

  How is that?

  
  
  Also read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great