Some apostates are more equal than others...

by slimboyfat 63 Replies latest jw friends

  • sf
    Do you think maybe they can't help but look down on the rest of us who were stupid enough to actually choose to become Witnesses? Is their a hierachy among apostates - between those who were brought up Witnesses and those who converted to the Witnesses?

    I must admit, I have a lot of ambivalence towards "those stupid ones" who continue to choose to stay, as adults, knowing it's full of deceit and corruption.

    Yet, I must say too, that over the years my attitude has mellowed over this, as I continue to try and be a support network rather than a militant. Not to say, at all, that militant apostates aren't appreciated. They are!

    This organization's members and ex-members has many dynamics.

    I will conclude by saying that one dynamic that is above all others, is that you can't KNOW what it was like as a child unless you lived it.

    Living this life as a child is a far different dynamic than living it as a consenting adult.

    The damage is far greater.


  • KW13

    Some apostates are more equal than others...

    lol its apostate farm!!

  • funkyderek

    I've often wondered how I would have turned out if I hadn't been raised as a JW. I would likely have been raised a fairly strict Catholic, and it's quite possible that I would have become disillusioned with the hypocricy of the church and would have been a prime target for JWs or any other cult that called to my door. While I know too much about science, the Bible, and the history of JWs, cult tactics and religion in general to ever be taken in by such a group, I only know so much because of my experiences as a JW and as an ex-JW. So, who knows, had I not been forced to investigate the religion I was raised in, I might have been taken in by the easy answers that other people provided.

    I don't think anyone here looks down on those who joined as adults. Cults prey on the vulnerable and trusting, not necessarily the stupid.

  • nicolaou
    Ever noticed that the most cleverest apostates are the ones that were "brought up in the truth"? . . . Do you think maybe they can't help but look down on the rest of us who were stupid enough to actually choose to become Witnesses?

    I was "brought up in the truth" and I didn't work out what a crock of pony manure it was until I was in my late 30's. Trust me, us 'born ins' are no smarter than anyone else.

  • proplog2

    There are always hierarchies in social groups. Where you are on the hierarchy depends on what the group feels is valuable. Rank a list of what you think a group feels is important. Grade yourself on a 3,5,or 7 point scale for each of these things and you will get an idea of where you rank in the hierarchy.

    Here is what I think this DB responds to in rank order.

    1. Scuttlebut and Inside information.

    2. People who are actively and brazenly fighting the organization.

    3. Skill at showing doctrinal error - good essayists

    4. Sympathetic ear and empathy.

    5. Sense of humor

    6. Sexual attractiveness (if it becomes known) or flirtatiousness

    7. Frequency of posting

    I would rate my self a 4 out of a possible 30 points. So that puts me at the bottom of the hierarchy. Which is fine with me.

    Let me know if you think this list is way off. Or perhaps suggest your own.

  • proplog2

    Actually the maximum would be 35 points since it is a scale of 5 times 7.

  • LittleToe

    You're only p*ssed because of the events at your baptism

    I'm not aware of looking down on anyone, but I could make an exception if ya really wanna - only if ya really, really wanna

    But more seriously: I tend to apply the phrase "there, but for the grace of God, go I". As Derek stated, in different circumstances I might have done the same as my Grandparents all did.

    My heart really goes out to those who feel they are trapped into staying "in" for the sake of family. To me that was a living hell, which I didn't last long in.

    One thing I believe is sure, that having been steeped in the WTS from birth we have a different perspective to that of those who joined later in life, especially if we believed the lot. We often knew which rules we could push, some of the pitfalls, and were raised with a childs observation of hypocrasy. We knew how to run with the program, and so when we finally got to see the world it was so radically different from how we'd been raised... well, I think the contrast perhaps makes us extraordinarily sensitive to the ploys we previously were subjected to.

    To catch a thief...

    Is it a noble thing to be a former thief?

  • Elsewhere
    Do you think maybe they can't help but look down on the rest of us who were stupid enough to actually choose to become Witnesses?

    I was born into the organization. I actually kick myself for being dumb enough to talk people into believing the crap.... even though I didn't really believe it myself. I'm not even sure it "dumb" is the right word to describe my feelings on it.

    You are upset for going into the organization... I am upset for bringing several other people into it.

    It is one thing to harm yourself, it is another thing to harm several other people.

  • Warlock

    First of all, I never looked down on anyone in the Org. I may have come to dislike some, but I didn't look down on them.

    Secondly, I especially don't look down at any one here.

    Look, when we were in the Org. we did what we did. We did what we were taught. We did what we thought was right. We tried to convert people into the Org. and some of us were very successful at it. We didn't think we were harming people, we thought we were doing good.

    There is no need to beat yourself up, because if you were born into it, you had no choice, but you are making your choice NOW.

    If you were converted, you thought you were doing the right thing, and by being here you are making an informed choice, not an uninformed choice.

    We can't totally undo what was done to us, but we can do the best we can and that's all.

    Hopefully, our experiences in the Org. and here will keep us from looking down at others whether they are in or out of the Org.

    It's called compassion. Have it with others, but especially with yourself.

    Warlock (sorry I got a little off topic)

  • Narkissos


    First, I was not born in, I was 12-13 years old when I decided to follow part of my family into the organisation. A lot of emotional factors were involved back then.

    One year later I had already questioned a lot of things. Still at some point I felt I couldn't live without God and chose to run faster than my doubts, trying to escape from my own shadow as it were. So I became a very zealous, one-track JW.

    The first time when I really met many "born-ins" was in Bethel. What struck me is that they were way more open-minded. They had lots of interests in life beside the WT. With their help I started reading other things than the Bible and WT literature, got interested in travels, mountain-climbing, astronomy and so on. But they are still in, I'm not.

    The second time was many years later and very recently, when I first got curious about ex-JW boards (two French-speaking ones before this one). At first I was a bit upset with the "victim talk," but gradually I understood that if I could not construe myself as a "WT victim" (to an extent I "chose" it, even though early in life), others, especially the "born-ins," really were: they had not "chosen" it by any stretch.

    I think it takes a lot of courage and intelligence to leave the WT when it has always been your unique world. To a very large extent it had become my world too, but it was not my unique horizon.

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