Are you tired of the whole atheist/believer debate?

by nicolaou 115 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Mary

  The only time the atheist/believer debate was won was on The Simpsons
• 

  PoppyR

  I never get tired of a good debate, I do get tired of people telling me I'm stupid to believe what I believe. Just because you cannot convince someone of what you are sure is true, does not mean they are stupid. It could possibly mean YOU are stupid for believing it. And it certainly means you are a proud person to think that you must be right.

  I think back to my days as a JW when I shook my head at those who could not see the OBVIOUS truth! Now of course I am the one left red faced!

  Poppy x (of the yet to be convinced group)
• 

  Van Gogh

  For me, these debates - the same debate that engrosses me currently - certainly turn out to be tiresome, but personally I cannot afford to be tired or amused by them as yet.
  To put it mildly, I found Narkissos to have cut down to the heart of the matter though; a valuable key insight that I will need to lock up in my mind and give serious thought to, as I cannot comprehend the many implications of it fully right now. Internalizing the gist of his post and fully reaching this "enlightened" state imho would circumvent much of my anguish on the subject caused by getting lost in much subjective detail that clouds many a debate on the issue.
  Personally, I sense a great desire to "know" "God", but many of the arguments used by believers are cause for concern for me. Once JWism implodes, any conviction can implode... an invaluable lesson for me.
  In a previous life, when younger as well, when I could afford to think more "arrogant", for me the debate was a non-issue. But stepping back from the matrix, finding myself in limbo in a vulnarable time in my life, I'm forced to confront an "existential loneliness" that is scary. How many of the viewpoints really stem from intellectual arrogance and/or fear?
  VG
• 

  CyrusThePersian

  
  I myself always enjoy these debates! They are the first thing I look for when I log on. It seems like there are always some fresh new insights that I had never thought of. I don't post too often on these debates because I'm not too bright but you wouldn't believe how many of these topics I have saved to CD-ROM so that I could study them and learn from them, so I say: KEEP 'EM COMING!!!

  Cyrus The Peabrain Persian
• 

  lowden

  Nic

  I don't think i'll ever get 'tired of the debate' because it's about intellectualising. It becomes tiresome when people become offensive or too rigid and dogmatic. When i was a JW i didn't think that i could be proved wrong, FULL STOP. I have since proved MYSELF wrong. What we percieve and believe is according to what our brains and intellectual minds have thus far worked out and that could ALL be wrong. I don't want to serve the god of the bible, i think he's a barbarian god of backward minded trogladytes (ancient israel). I do though lean towards a superior force of some kind, but i'm no where near sure of it's nature. I am also currently leaning towards thinking that we 'chose' to come here to learn lessons we needed to learn. That is merely a diaphanous thought in my mind at the moment though. As long as it doesn't get too 'violent', then may the debate continue.

  Peace

  Lowden
• 

  lovelylil

  Just wanted to say there are moral people in every religion and even amongst atheists. And there are unmoral people among all these groups as well. No one should judge and think because they are a believer in God that this somehow makes them more moral or superior to any who don't share their belief. Most of the people who have wronged me in my life and commited acts of abuse against me have been "Christians". Every human has their own moral compass regardless of their beliefs, some just choose to ignore theirs and hurt other people.

  I agree with Poppy that we just have to agree to disagree. Since I don't feel I am obligated to convert the world like some Christians feel, I can have good conversations with anyone who asks about my beliefs without arguing to try to prove myself correct. We should find a common ground because regardless of our belief, most humans are interested in the same things: secure future, end of violence in the world, loving families, good health, etc.

  I also agree that it is the assumption that believers are stupid that causes the arguement. We are no more stupid or intelligent than unbelievers. We have a right to our opinion and unbelievers a right to theirs. We should not even bring up our opinion unless we are asked. But need to use discretion to make sure the person asking is sincere and not just looking for an arguement.
• 

  trevor

  The question is - Have we Created an atmosphere conducive for debating this issue, or did it Evolve?
• 

  EAGLE-1

  Right on Miss Peaches

  I dont care either way
• 

  AuldSoul

  there's such a thing as the burden of proof.

  If the standards of acceptable "proof" are rigged at the start to preclude that which is being proven, there is no possible way to prove by those standards. If kid-A is reading this, here is the way in which believers are challenged to prove the existence of a spiritual aspect to reality. Frequent inference that unless proof can be offered scientifically that the subject is moot.

  Extraordinary claims do not require extraordinary proof unless I am attempting to compel belief. I am not, therefore proof is not owed by me. But even if proof were owed, the required method's self-imposed limitations prevent the possibility of proof.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
• 

  AuldSoul

  I also agree that it is the assumption that believers are stupid that causes the arguement. We are no more stupid or intelligent than unbelievers. We have a right to our opinion and unbelievers a right to theirs. We should not even bring up our opinion unless we are asked. But need to use discretion to make sure the person asking is sincere and not just looking for an arguement.

  I agree, lovelylil. Although, to be fair the argument probably started with religious zealots accusing scientists (and those merely interested in science) of poisoning the minds of young people.

  It rages on because of the stupid, prejudiced generalizations that people continue to hurl at one another on all sides of the issue. Like most of the major debates through the ages, this one is fueled by unreasoned despise of the viewpoints or characteristics of those who are different.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul