Are you tired of the whole atheist/believer debate?

by nicolaou 115 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Midget-Sasquatch

  The positive side of our changing models for reality is that with each iteration we do gain more control and power over our surroundings. Strongly suggesting that our knowledge is at least on the right track. Newtonian classical mechanics are still quite valid and can be successfully used in our macroscopic day to day world. Quantum mechanics makes us humble in just how incomplete our knowledge really is though. But I'm still satisfied with what can be done with that limited amount.

  I'm with you though that these are all models. And so I'd be presumptious to ad hock rule out any other plane or realm to reality (for this discussion that means any "spiritual" reality)
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  AuldSoul

  Exactly, Midget-Sasquatch. That's what I've been getting at.

  Our framework for interpretting and describing reality (our model) always has been (and always will be) only belief. That doesn't make reality any less real. Would Newtonian Physics have been any less functional prior to being described through application of the Scientific Method? What about quantum physics and string theory?

  I caution against discussion of spiritual realm or reality. If it is reality, it is reality. It would only be a spiritual aspect of reality that has yet to be discovered. One thing seems obvious when hypothesizing about this spiritual aspect, carbon-based rules don't necessarily apply.

  Since we don't know what sort of beings might exist outside our perception we cannot rule out that they may be sentient energy. In which case, it would be right to claim never having had a beginning and never having had an end—energy can change state but can never "not exist."

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  Midget-Sasquatch

  Heathen

  There's a good deal of confusion over the punctuated equilibrium model of speciation. It still holds that the changes would require at least tens of thousands of years if not hundreds of thousands. So "overnight" geologically speaking is still a fair stretch for natural selection to work within.

  AuldSoul

  Since we don't know what sort of beings might exist outside our perception we cannot rule out that they may be sentient energy. In which case, it would be right to claim never having had a beginning and never having had an end—energy can change state but can never "not exist."

  Not being 100% sure either way....and quite possibly our never being able to be sure....that to me is the most frustrating aspect of an agnostic position. I would at least have to have some kind of experiential confirmation of the existence of the spiritual to seriously consider it . But then how do I know its a genuine interaction with another part of reality and not just a misinterpreted neural glitch from within me? At least the atheist and the believer can move on either way.
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  heathen

  Midget-Sasquatch --- Just stating what I've heard are the latest theories and no they don't think even 100,000 years for evolution . They think it happened in leaps and bounds now, with no evidence to support other than huge gaps in the fossil records which is not evidence .

  I know the frustration of religion as well so my saying I believe in God in no way reflects that I practice religion at all , I don't . I've also had many experiences with the paranormal and don't think it's a nueral dysfunction . No way to convince me otherwise . Some of it had to do with the God of the bible there was no question about it .I've never worshipped any other God . Of course that's not evidence but for me only .
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  Midget-Sasquatch

  Of course that's not evidence but for me only .

  I agree with you there. I'm partial to the idea that if "God" wanted to prove to us that He/She/It is really around, then those sorts of experiences could be used with anyone who's open to it. Personal confirmation sure beats following non-prophets.
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  Blueblades

  I have a headache. There will always be two camps, even with the most brillant minds going at it. Personal experiences aside.

  Blueblades