by jw 93 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
I see your point LG.
However, "JW" provides a first hand example how people who profess to be so righteous will go to any lengths to protect an organization, even if victims have to suffer.
To those who would ever consider joining this cult..........."JW" provides an excellent witness.
JW:
The problem is that Because the Organization knowingly harbored Pedophiles, there are currently Pedophiles that are available to Hurt more children, both in the kingdom halls and in the home.
When a JW goes to the door do you think that the Householder is going to be told that the person standing at his door is a possible pedophile?
I think you are right that we in general need to be very wary of who we trust our children with. But in many situations, mothers and fathers Cannot be with their kids 24/7. Many parents have to have both adults working just to make ends meet. Mothers who bring their children to the hall end up having to depend on other adults in the congregation to help them.
If the average person does Not know about the child abuse within the congregation they might potentially attend, or are told that such allegations are False and for Whatever reason they completely believe these people don't you think they deserve to be completely aware of the facts before going?
Do you know if a child molestor is lurking in the store waiting for your child to be apart from you?
Is walmart responsible to inform you if they hire a pedophile?
Do you know if your childs teacher is gay or lesbian waiting for a chance to sexually assault your child?
Is it the schools responsibility to inform you of all the gay and lesbians they hire?
Do you know if your next door neighbor whom you have known 30 + yrs. is waiting for the opportunity to molest and kill your child?
Is it the neighbors responsibility to inform you of pedophiles in your neighborhood?
I am not trying to be insensitive just realistic.
It is the parents primary duty to protect their children!
Doesn't mean they don't have to believe the teachings, it just means that they deserve a fair warning, like everyone else.
Further ....
As a RAPE victim, I can tell you right now, that your demeanor with people who have been victimized does not tell me that you are experienced working with rape victims. Sorry, but while I can see your point in your original questions, the reasoning you are using with people is bothersome because by telling people that You used the 24/7 rule, it demeans parents who are unable and not so lucky to be with their kids 24/7.
However, "JW" provides a first hand example how people who profess to be so righteous will go to any lengths to protect an organization, even if victims have to suffer.
I never said not to take legal action when necessary against the organization.
I just don't think you all resorting to bashing the organization is the proper way .
You can criticise the Jw organization till you are blue in the face.
If child abuse is so active in the organization your efforts would serve a better purpose by catching the crimminals in the act.
Keep your enemies close.
A video or pics are worth more than mere words.
Witnesses a must.
Channel your energy more wisely.
To those who would ever consider joining this cult..........."JW" provides an excellent witness.
IMHO, the problem people have is the way the borg deals with these people.
For example, I go to the elders, tell them I've been molested. I don't have two witnesses, the person denies it. Done.
Now I go warn other people this person is dangerous and don't let their children near. The elders find out, DF me for slander.
How can you say that this isn't supporting the abuser?
Do you know if a child molestor is lurking in the store waiting for your child to be apart from you? You mean like the JW with the camera that was taking pictures in the men's room?
Is walmart responsible to inform you if they hire a pedophile? Actually, I think they are.
Do you know if your childs teacher is gay or lesbian waiting for a chance to sexually assault your child? WTF kind of assumption is this? Just because someone is gay does NOT mean they are a pedophile. It is a completely unrelated and different thing. You need to research this a lot more before you make claims like that.
Is it the schools responsibility to inform you of all the gay and lesbians they hire? No, and I don't want to know. What does this have to do with pedophiles anyway?
Do you know if your next door neighbor whom you have known 30 + yrs. is waiting for the opportunity to molest and kill your child? No, but then again this question seems out of place
Is it the neighbors responsibility to inform you of pedophiles in your neighborhood? I would hope so.
I am not trying to be insensitive (YOU LOSE) just realistic.
It is the parents primary duty to protect their children!
You said it right there, primary. Belonging to a community,especially one touting itself as god's chosen, should mean that there is protection for it's weakest and most vulnerable members, but instead the WTS is more concerned with covering it's own a$$ and worrying about it's reputation.
If they have evidence to support the allegations of child abuse, such as dna, sperm, etc..., then I might be willing to jump on their bandwagon.I know I have been pretty invisible on this thread and perhaps you just missed my earlier response to you but this comment above shows how little understanding you have regarding the issue when it comes to JWs.
When a parent or the victim goes to the elders to help them deal with a person who has abused the child, the elders will not immediate tell them to report it to the police. The child will not be taken to the doctor to get the evidence "such as dna, sperm, etc..."
The elders have their own little investigation which entails asking the accused if he did it and if he says no the elders will shrug their shoulders and say there is nothing they can do because it is one man (or woman) against the word of a child. And since there aren't two witnesses to the abuse the eldersjust tell the child and family they can do nothing but do not speak of this to others in the cong or they will be accused of gossiping and could be reproved for causing dissention within the cong.
So here is this poor child who has been abused and has had to tell her story to window washers and button salesmen. Scripture that JWs should not go outside the cong with issues regarding "brothers" will be read. She/he or the family is reminded that one should not take their "brother" to court and now she is told she can't tell anyone. Pity the poor child whose abuser is a parent. They have to go home with them knowing the abuse won't stop.
And after all this whatever evidence is washed away and the actual events have been contaminated by the elders clumsy investigation.
Another suggestion: spousal abuse laws : Read up on them where you reside. Seems you can be arrested on the spot no matter what! We can get a similar child abuse law passed . And thus no one even has a necessity to go to an Elder or Jw congregation to report it.
I have completely and utterly HAD IT with this!!! Normally, not too much upsets me, but when someone doesn’t GET IT, either because they don’t want to, or because the WT blinders are on so tightly that it’s impossible to get light in an otherwise ignorant part of their brain, I can’t just sit back and say nothing. This ignorance, circular reasoning and illogic is too much for me to bear. I’ve wanted to beat my head on my keyboard and mutter “idiot”, but I think perhaps a rebuttal or two would be a little more constructive. (as well, kinder to my keyboard…) I think jw is completely missing the issue; I don’t know what it will take to get through. I’ll make yet another attempt:
Do you know if a child molestor is lurking in the store waiting for your child to be apart from you?
It’s always a possibility. Just as it’s a possibility someone in the local congregation is waiting for the same opportunity. Odds are, though, that the molester in the store, if caught, would be prosecuted. The “brother” or “sister”? Not so probable.
Is walmart responsible to inform you if they hire a pedophile?
Not likely that they would (I don’t know, I don’t work there or know their policies), but if they do, the key words here are “inform” and “pedophile” – a labeled person. A KNOWN pedophile. What is the issue in this thread is the HARBORING of abusers -- known only to a pedophile’s victim and MAYBE a confided-in elder or friend… which goes nowhere because of the “two witness rule”. As well, it’s a person’s right and duty to know who in their locale is a “known pedophile” – websites, City Hall etc – a plethora of resources educate oneself.
Do you know if your childs teacher is gay or lesbian waiting for a chance to sexually assault your child?
This is offensive to me. Being gay or lesbian does not automatically predispose one to being abusive.
Is it the schools responsibility to inform you of all the gay and lesbians they hire?
Does it matter? See above response.
Do you know if your next door neighbor whom you have known 30 + yrs. is waiting for the opportunity to molest and kill your child?
See my comments under your first and second questions.
Is it the neighbors responsibility to inform you of pedophiles in your neighborhood?
I would say so, yes. As well, it’s your own responsibility to investigate online, records of known sex offenders.
I am not trying to be insensitive just realistic.
I disagree – on the “realistic” end of things. You’re presenting a lot of strawmen, red herrings and circular reasoning in many of your posts, including this one. What is realistic is that there ARE pedophiles in the congregations of JW. What we are trying to TELL you is that because of the two-witness “rule”, most of these perverts do not get to the proper legal channels, freeing them to abuse again and again. THAT is realistic. Yes, perhaps there are the occasional ones that do get properly prosecuted, imprisoned – but the percentage is much much too small.
It is the parents primary duty to protect their children!
Obviously. But many of us entrust our children to the “friends”, the “brothers” and “sisters” in the congregation, unknowingly endangering our children to unknown pedophiles.
I never said not to take legal action when necessary against the organization.
Would you personally do this? If a member of your congregation came to you and told you “mommy, brother so&so gave me a big hug. He hugs me a lot and really tight, and breathes on my hair funny, but mommy this time he also put his hand up the back of my shirt onto my bare back and was rubbing it. It made me feel funny. I told him so, and he said not to say anything to anyone about it.” What would you do, jw, what would you DO??
I just don't think you all resorting to bashing the organization is the proper way .
I don’t feel that this is “bashing the organization”. People here are expressing their very real situations. Situations that occurred and were ALLOWED to occur under the veil of “theocracy” and protecting the Org at all costs.
You can criticise the Jw organization till you are blue in the face.
Or until something finally changes.
If child abuse is so active in the organization your efforts would serve a better purpose by catching
the crimminals in the act.
Yes, this would be ideal, as well as fulfilling the two-witness rule. However, it’s also quite unrealistic. “catching the criminals in the act” should equal having the testimony of one person, the abused, considered and believed. And the consequences be an investigation by the law, prosecution and imprisonment. (or in my own personal opinion, castration… but I digress)
Keep your enemies close.
Thank you, I will and I do. I know who in my town is in the sex offender registry, I know who in my in-law’s town are sex offenders, I know who the sex offenders are in my entire county and have access to those who are sex offenders in my entire state. But I’m guessing that the elder in the next county, who has a ‘thing’ for children, who considers himself my ‘friend’ as well as the ‘friend’ (ie NOT “enemy”) of my children, is NOT on that sex offender registry.
A video or pics are worth more than mere words.
Of course. Again, quite unrealistic – if this was indeed a great possibility, each and every one of us would be trying to accomplish this. But it just isn’t logical.
Witnesses a must.
Ah yes, the two-witness rule. In the REAL world, outside of the JW cult, it does not take witnessES, it takes one.
Channel your energy more wisely.
I’m sure we will all channel our energies and passions into this until it is changed to protect our children. We feel this IS a wise channeling, until there are changes. We will be telling our stories to release our deep pains and to inform and protect one another. Eventually, we hope with every beat of our heart, our voices will be finally heard and this horrible JW policy will evaporate, freeing the currently abused children and preventing the abuse of our future babies.
Hi everyone,
Just for the record, most homosexuals are NOT pedophiles. They have consenting sex with ADULTS. To assume that they are pedophiles is totally ridiculous and unfounded. There are much more married, straight men who are pedophiles, so lets get the facts correct.
As you can all see, trying to argue with someone like jw is totally pointless. That is why I for one refuse to even answer him any more. If we all band together and ignore him, maybe he will just go away. Let him go back to his so-called spiritual paradise and stay there if he is happy. He should not be here anyway since we are apostates.
So again, I say lets all SHUN him so he will go away. Anybody in?
Is it just me or did "JW" just equate pedophiles, molesters and murderers to homosexuals?
Funny how if you wait a little while the true colors start to show.
Anybody in?
Me me me me!!! I'm so done with this.... it's hopeless.
Let the shunnin begin!
~merfi (still trying to calm down)
