British College: Non-Muslims are "filth", "pigs" and "dogs"

by Elsewhere 65 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Hellrider

  The Times has obtained extracts from medieval texts taught to the students in which unbelievers are likened to pigs and dogs. The texts are taught at the Hawza Ilmiyya of London,

  How dare they call a school like that a "college". Schools that do this, should immediately lose all the funds they get from the state. Of course, that won`t happen, because of our weak, politically "correct" politicians.

  I'm studying Christian church history as part of my degree; This has brought me into contact with the works of eminent theologians such as Martin Luther - an avid hater of the Jews (and from whom it has been suggested that Hitler drew some of his reasons for implementing their extermination). So, by the same token, just because I've read Luther, does that mean I am commanded to hate the Jews or do I see his vitriol as a stage in church history from which I should learn and develop?

  Basically, I agree. Maybe Islam too could become secularised, like christianity did. 500 years ago, we were burning "witches" on the stake, and blasphemy resulted in the death penalty. And all non-christians could be killed on sight. Our christian past is nothing to be proud of. BUT: It took christianity several hundred years to become secularised. In a world of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons, we can`t afford to have the same patience with Islam. It has to become secularised, and damn fast too! Unfortunately, they seem to be going the other way, more and more turn to extremism. And all the while, we are having millions of them in Europe allready, and more are coming. And all the while, they are hating us more and more every second. It sure doesn`t look good!
• 

  Mary

  Mohammed Saeed Bahmanpour, who teaches in both the Hawza and the ICAS, confirmed that al-Hilli text was used, but denied that it was taught as doctrine. He said that, although the book was a key work in the jurisprudence class, its prescriptions were not taught as law. When he taught from it, he omitted the impurity chapter, he said.

  This kind of crap just pisses me right off.....why are our countries tolerating this shit?? I've got two words for anyone who teaches this stuff: DEPORT THEM!!

  Islam is not a religion of peace and only the brainwashed Muslims themselves believe such a farce. They have long taught very hateful doctrines to anyone who's not a Muslim, but they've always had a special hatred for the Jews who are ".....descendants of apes and pigs..." or that Jews use the blood of Gentiles to bake unleavened bread for Passover, etc.

  And what would happen if a Christian or Jewish school were teaching their students that Muslims were "pigs" and "dogs"?? They'd start WWIII for god's sake.......look at the way the flipped out about a stupid CARTOON.......ya, everyone's supposed to tolerate Islam, even though Islam doesn't tolerate anyone else.
• 

  MuadDib

  "they've always had a special hatred for the Jews"

  What, more so than the Christians? It was Christians who made up the blood libel, Christians who expelled Jews from European nations time and time again, Christians who led pogrom after pogrom against Jews accused of well poisoning, usury, spreading plague, or any number of idiotic fabrications. The Holocaust took place in a historically Christian nation. By contrast, the Jews of the Muslim Middle East spent centuries in relative peace and safety. Only recently have the Islamic populations of the world come down firmly (and appallingly) against the Jews - and that probably has a lot more to do with Zionism (and if you want a xenophobic, intolerant, nationalist, ass-backwards ideology, look no further) than with any tenet of Islam. If you want to root out anti-Semitism in the Islamic world, spreading this type of misinformation is a poor way to go about it.

  "they expanded through war and augmented their numbers by forcing most indivduals in the conquered nations to convert to Islam."

  It may be true that Muslims conquered a good deal of the Middle East by force, but how on earth do you think that a tiny force of soldiers could forcibly displace religious traditions in place there for centuries, or millennia in the case of Persia? The regions administered by the Byzantine and Sassanid Persian Empire - the sites of the initial Islamic conquests - were prosperous, well-educated, and culturally sophisticated, everything the Arabs were not. Any attempt to enforce a new religion would have produced large-scale uprising and a dramatic disruption in the way of life in these regions. In actuality, the conquering minority must have come to some kind of terms with the local populations, if only because order could not have been maintained in any other way. Only gradually were these populations converted to Islam - in all likelihood because a dynamic new faith offered more to them, spiritually, than their former traditions - and substantial minorities of other faiths remained prominent features of these regions for centuries, just as pagan populations remained firmly entrenched in Europe for generations even if the ruling classes (frequently invasive itinerant peoples swarming into the Roman Empire) adopted Christianity for various reasons of their own.

  People like to talk about Islamic fundamentalism as though this kind of religious fanaticism is something new and horrible, and an integral part of the faith. History shows otherwise - at least to people who actually read it.
• 

  Sad emo

  Good post MuaDib

  The earliest Muslim armies gave 'defeated' nations the choice - 'Islam, tribute or the sword' (the option of 'tribute' is sometimes missed out in western teaching) ie

  you could convert to Islam - and pay zakat (a proportion of all your income/goods)

  people of the book (Jews and Christians) could accept Islamic rule and pay jizzyah (instead of zakat - and contrary to popular opinion, less than zakat). I don't know what the options were for infidels though.

  or you could decide to remain an enemy.

  The respective taxes were used to provide social care for all who needed it, for the upkeep of mosques - where most of the social care was administered and the military (did you know that only Muslims were allowed in the army, because they had a bounden duty to protect non-Muslims living at peace with them?)

  From the Christian history point of view, the Orthodox were being persecuted by the Western church so they practically welcomed the Muslim armies with open arms when they arrived (From a Christian text book!)

  I believe that the emotive scaremongering going on in the media is actually having a detrimental influence on Muslim-Western relations. It makes even the moderate and 'westernised' Muslims feel that they are hated, resulting in them becoming more insular rather than reaching out (You could say its similar to WBTS 'information' - the rest of the world hates us because of who we are so we'll just pull tighter together.) and it also leaves these moderates with their hands tied because the extremists have their 'proof' that the West hates Muslims. (In a similar way that the BNP will use 'prime examples' to spread their doctrine).

  emo is just going to put her Kevlar suit on now...
• 

  Pleasuredome

  when jesus comes to sort things out, everything will be fine.
• 

  Mary

  It was Christians who made up the blood libel, Christians who expelled Jews from European nations time and time again, Christians who led pogrom after pogrom against Jews accused of well poisoning, usury, spreading plague, or any number of idiotic fabrications. The Holocaust took place in a historically Christian nation. By contrast, the Jews of the Muslim Middle East spent centuries in relative peace and safety. Only recently have the Islamic populations of the world come down firmly (and appallingly) against the Jews - and that probably has a lot more to do with Zionism (and if you want a xenophobic, intolerant, nationalist, ass-backwards ideology, look no further) than with any tenet of Islam.

  I never said Christians weren't guilty of the atrocities against the Jews because they were, and it's true that during the Middles ages the Jews and Muslims lived in relative peace. This thread was about the Islamic view, not the Christian view. If you want, we can discuss that in another thread. One need only take a look at the writings of Mohammed in the Koran to see what the official view of Jews are in the Islamic world.

  If you want to root out anti-Semitism in the Islamic world, spreading this type of misinformation is a poor way to go about it.

  This is not "misinformation". One need only take a look at the Islamic world of today to see what their views are on Jews. Does any other religion have it written down where the Jews are called "pigs" or "decendents of apes" besides Islam?
• 

  carla

  Are they so different from jehovah witnesses?

  If someone formerly was a Jehovah's Witness, "We must hate in the truest sense, which is to regard with extreme active aversion, to consider as loathsome, odious, filthy, to detest." ( Watchtower 10/1/52, p.599)

  "in order to hate what is bad a Christian must hate the person" (Watchtower 7/15/1961, p. 420)
• 

  Mary

  Amen Carla!! The only difference between Islam and the WTS is that the WTS doesn't physicall kill you for leaving. They just attempt to kill you spiritually, mentally, emotionally and financially.
• 

  pepheuga

  those are some eye opening quotes carla! for more,-------> http://www.reexamine.org/quotes/
• 

  Abaddon

  ColdRedRain

  I could kiss you for such a common-sense comment.

  Those who just jumped on this thread to repeat the anti-Islamic sentiments you've expressed in other threads are simply doing a Christian version of what the bigoted syllabus these students are complaining about does. Get a grip. The minute you start presenting objections to Islam that take into account how many Muslims have anti-Christian sentiments in comparison to those who are tolerant, or ones which look at Islam's history of violence intolerance and misogyny in light of Christianity's is the minute you get your opinion taken seriously.

  Sad emo

  See how these Muslim organisations teaching extremist views are even taking over our former Church schools, a further example of the erosion of the British way of life? - The scandal of it! (Thing we forget here is to ask why there is no need for church schools any more!).

  It was an empty building now used by the Muslim groups; this is not 'taking over' in the sense one might think it is, it's just 'change of use'. It could have equally become a Yoga Centre. The fact this irrelevant fact is mentioned in the newspaper article should make the reader think "what is the paper expecting/wanting me to think about this, why do they mention it?"

  Another outlook I have is that it's articles like this which actually give the BNP their ammo and excuse to exist. It sometimes makes me wonder if something is being deliberately orchestrated.

  You are right, in fact the intolerant bigots on both sides need each other; the Right-Wing Islamic Fundies provide the BNP with the 'oxygen' they need, and vice-versa. They both target groups (to recruit members) poorly informed and disadvantaged enough (or who feel they are disadvantaged) to be susceptible to such risible beliefs as they have.

  Gill

  Apparantly 1 in 6 Britons would consider voting for the British National Party now, which is pretty scary, as they are rather intolerant.

  Which shows you ignorance and bigotry is not something only Muslims have to worry about... or rather, IS something even the most tolerant and secular Muslim has to worry about, as we all know the neo-Nazi boot boys never target the dangerous Muslim or immigrants, only the ones they can harm without risking harm to themselves. I've had to prove to a friend that the BNP (white-washed right-wing bigots)is run by the people who ran the National Front (old-style "racist and proud of it" right-wing bigots) before they believed me. The gullibility of people is unbelievable.

  greendawn

  Islam is not a religion of peace they expanded through war and augmented their numbers by forcing most indivduals in the conquered nations to convert to Islam. It's not true what the Moslems say that they embraced Islam out of their own free will, they were forced to do it.

  AGAIN you lay into Islam without consideration of Christianity's use of violence to spread and enforce itself. Does a one sided and partial argument have some magic appeal to you or what?

  Hellrider

  Maybe Islam too could become secularised, like christianity did. 500 years ago, we were burning "witches" on the stake, and blasphemy resulted in the death penalty. And all non-christians could be killed on sight. Our christian past is nothing to be proud of. BUT: It took christianity several hundred years to become secularised.

  So far so perceptive; yes, Islam is a few hundred years behind Christianity in terms of its social development.

  In a world of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons, we can`t afford to have the same patience with Islam. It has to become secularised, and damn fast too! Unfortunately, they seem to be going the other way, more and more turn to extremism. And all the while, we are having millions of them in Europe allready, and more are coming. And all the while, they are hating us more and more every second. It sure doesn`t look good!

  Now, what makes you think you can change CULTURE with mobile phones and Nike's? Would our great-great grandfathers be non-racist, non-sexist men if we dropped them into the modern world? Would threatening them be what convinced them the modern world was right? Some of the immigrants or 'problem groups' in the Arabic world come from cultures that perpetrate attitudes our Victorian forebears would be right at home with down to this day. The only thing that will change them is affluence and democracy; screaming at women for wearing Western clothes or blowing oneself up are far less attractive if your kids will have decent jobs, you have a nice job, and you can vote for someone.

  Just as Western society was secularised from within - by the women refusing to accept being downtrodden, by those who believed in a human's own rights refusing to allow religious domination of society or politics - so too will Islamic society be secularised from within. Rather than fighting the fathers and grandfather we should be teaching their kids and spending the billions we spend on weapons on fighting poverty. Of course, fighting poverty is not a profit making exercise, whereas selling weapons is, so which gets the political backing? The idea it's the kids we should concentrate on opens 'faith' schools up to rather uncomfortable inspection. Yet will Christians give up their 'faith' schools?

  Mary

  Does any other religion have it written down where the Jews are called "pigs" or "decendents of apes" besides Islam?

  Come off it Mary, most Nazis were nominal Christians and said such things. Many Muslims would disagree with co-religionists who said such things about Jews today. There were Christian churches (still are) that called black people the 'descendants of apes' or 'pigs'. You don't have a point.

  The fact that some Muslims are falling for EXACTLY the same doctrines and beliefs the Germans fell for under Nazi rule should make it obvious this is a social and political problem. I mean, the victims of such toxic beliefs aren't of the same religion or culture so it must be a social and political problem.Those concentrating on the religious dimension are actually missing the true driving factors and playing STRAIGHT INTO THE ARMS of those we need fear most by alienating those we need as allies in all of this; the vast majority of peaceful Muslims.